253 - Do It With Purpose with Danny Sanchez

May 1

253 - Do It With Purpose with Danny Sanchez

Listeners, we're back this week with Danny Sanchez

Danny Sanchez, author of Post Traumatic Quest is a highly recognized social entrepreneur and leader in youth violence prevention and redirection. He has been featured in notable media outlets such as Forbes Magazine and The Huffington Post.

Danny is a sought-after speaker in his fields. His insights around youth violence and trauma have been presented at billion-dollar companies such as LinkedIn, Facebook, and Google.His service to the community received numerous awards including “Champion of Change” by President Barak Obama. His social justice efforts led him to work with government agencies such as the US Department of Justice and the Ministry of Innovation, Science and Technology of Jalisco Mexico.

Pastor Danny is a San Jose, California native with deep roots in the local community. He created the volunteer crisis response chaplaincy program in Silicon Valley, and is the Founder of The City Peace Project non-profit organization and the owner of Post Traumatic Quest LLC, all where he works as a passionate advocate for students and schools through his coaching, mentoring, and conflict resolution.

He and his wife, Abigail, are blessed with a blended family, which includes three adult children and two little ones. Danny enjoys skateboarding in his free time and has fun as an amateur recording artist and singer-songwriter.

During our conversation, we talked about:

05:24 - Identifying as Chicano
11:34 - Feeling robbed
15:21 - New generations
19:51 - About the haves and the have nots
20:43 - Having options
25:40 - Being raided and his youth
28:19 - Layers of trauma
31:43 - Forgiveness
38:19 - Kids connecting with his book
41:14 - This is possible for you
42:01 - His life changed at 29 years old
45:43 - Embracing who you are
46:49 - Being careful with purpose

Pam: Hello everyone. This is Pam de Cafe con Pam, the bilingual podcast that features Latine and people of the global majority who break barriers, change lives and make this world a better place. Welcome to episode 253 of Cafe con Pam. Today we have a conversation with Danny Sanchez.
Danny Sanchez, author of Post Traumatic Quest is a highly recognized social entrepreneur and leader in youth violence prevention and redirection. He has been featured in notable media outlets such as Forbes Magazine and The Huffington Post.
Danny is a sought-after speaker in his fields. His insights around youth violence and trauma have been presented at billion-dollar companies such as LinkedIn, Facebook, and Google.His service to the community received numerous awards including “Champion of Change” by President Barak Obama. His social justice efforts led him to work with government agencies such as the US Department of Justice and the Ministry of Innovation, Science and Technology of Jalisco Mexico.
Pastor Danny is a San Jose, California native with deep roots in the local community. He created the volunteer crisis response chaplaincy program in Silicon Valley, and is the Founder of The City Peace Project non-profit organization and the owner of Post Traumatic Quest LLC, all where he works as a passionate advocate for students and schools through his coaching, mentoring, and conflict resolution.
Danny and his wife, Abigail, are blessed with a blended family, which includes three adult children and two little ones. Danny enjoys skateboarding in his free time and has fun as an amateur recording artist and singer-songwriter.
Listeners, oh my gosh. This interview is so touching in so many levels. I will give a gentle trigger warning because the conversation between Danny and I, we do talk about gang violence. We do talk about physical abuse. We do talk about trauma and I really am so grateful that Danny was so open to share his story and really walk us through his life. It's so good. It's so good.
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And I think the difference that Danny's work is doing in San Jose, we need more in all over the US and all of the cities that host communities like us, black and brown communities, because you'll hear during the interview we talk about the system, we talk about how things are not set up for us to thrive and how by design it's easier to basically black and brown folks fight against each other, because that keeps us where the system wants us to be. And so this is a powerful, powerful conversation. I think this is one that I invite you to sit down and listen and bring your calming tea because Danny takes us into a journey of his life and not an easy life. So, so powerful. And I don't have a lot of words because it's, it's, it's real. So I will stop ranting and I will let you just dive in. Here's my conversation with Danny Sanchez.

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Pam: Danny, so welcome to Cafe con Pam. How are you doing?

Danny: I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you?

Pam: Thank you for coming. I am well, thank you. Thank you. I always start with this question. What is your heritage?

Danny: I'm Chicano Mexican, but you know, I I'll identify as a Chicano. Can I just share on that little bit?

Pam: Yeah!

Danny: I didn't know who I was growing up. You know, I don't speak Spanish, most Chicanos or Latinos in Northern California during the time I grew up didn't speak Spanish, but a lot did. And so, you know, a lot of us, it seemed like we didn't really know who we were. I didn't identify with a tag, because of, you know, my dad, you know, [inaudible] and the Pachuco scene and I heard that word Chicano Power all the time. We'd have, you know, like murals and paintings and stuff like that. So that's how I identified with it. You know, I didn't, I didn't know the deep roots of it, but I just knew that, oh, we're Chicanos, because of my dad.

Pam: What generation are you?

Danny: I don't, I've asked my mom and dad, like when did our family immigrated from Mexico? And they both don't remember, and my great grandparents were here and had built a life. So they don't even remember what city their family's from. So it's like both sides. Right. And the interesting thing is my mom grew up in Brawley, California, Southern California. Right. And my dad grew up in Texas and they both spoke Spanish. Most of their life. You know, as children. And I think I heard that my dad spoke it up to like middle school.

Didn't even really speak English at all. He's from Del Rio, Texas, which is a border city and predominantly, you know, spoke Spanish, but they never taught us Spanish. My mom and dad's Spanish is very broken now. So it took a long time to know who I was. That's a whole journey in itself.

Pam: 100%. It's fascinating because I wonder if the border crossed your families roots instead of them crossing the border.

Danny: Wow. I never thought about that, but that's a possibility. Yeah.

Pam: Because, recently, I was talking to my mom and she was like, did you know that when the Santana treaty, which is when California, Texas, Colorado, like all of the 11 states were taken from Mexico, did you know that the islands were not included? And I was like, what? And she's like, yeah. So like Catalina, Coronado, like all of the islands. They are not, they still technically illegal. And I mean, we can have historians like argue the points, but this is what I got from my mother, which also don't trust the source. That was just fascinating because she's like, technically the islands still belong to Mexico. And technically the Santana treaty, like it's not technically valid. To bring it back to your story though, I mean, could it have been that your family roots are in this part of the territory and they were here before it was a US.

Danny: Yeah, that's something I should look into, you know, because I've asked both sides, you know, my mom, her grandparents were here and we have pictures, you know, and like you see dates on there in 1906 or whatever, you know? It is interesting. Yeah. That could, that's a possibility. And my, my grandfather's 91 and I've asked him. Yeah. And he's very talkative. I've asked him. And he, it's interesting because I don't know if he just doesn't want to say it. He kind of avoids the question, you know? Yeah. It's interesting.

Pam: Wow. I mean, if we look, but he's 91, so I'm sure. And I don't have the actual dates, so listeners, bear with me. But there was a time in California and Texas where I've seen the signs where it says, you know, no Mexicans or dogs in this establishment.

Danny: Oh, I've seen that sign too. And I think it was during the fifties. Right. Forties or fifties. Yeah.

Pam: Yeah. And so I wonder if it's like trauma from your grandpa. Who's like, I don't want to remember those times because there were painful.

Danny: Yeah. Well, I mean, when I was young, I really believe I dealt with a lot of that. We moved to a side of town in San Jose that was proudly white. I didn't know what happened. I was uprooted. And we lived with my grandparents, you know, and I could share more about that in a bit, but my parents were divorced when I was really young, but, um, my mom had a new boyfriend and we moved to Texas all of a sudden, nice part of town, nice clothes, cars, everything changed. And, and there's more to it, you know, but it was predominantly white. I mean, there was probably a handful of Mexicans and African-American people at the school and I constantly was in trouble and I was constantly paddled, you know, they were still paddling back then in third grade, I left school, because it was traumatizing, like not left school, but I cut school because I knew I was gonna get paddled. And they would say things to me if I wore like a shirt with a skateboard on it or something like, oh, you're, you're not a skater. You know, it was just these things. These comments that I knew were racist comments, you know, towards me.

Pam: 100%

Danny: Yeah. So I couldn't imagine his time, you know, cause my mom even told me she remembers that, uh, they would get the ruler for speaking Spanish at school, you know? And if they spoke Spanish in class, you know, they would call them up. I think I'm not a hundred percent sure. I don't want to mix my stories. But I think when she was younger, she was asking to use the restroom in Spanish and they call the prefect[?]. And they said speak English. And yeah, so I definitely know with her, I mean, she hasn't said it to me, but there's probably trauma cause she 100% like try to get that part out of our life, you know, or like our, you know, our Mexican heritage or you know culture, you know, our home didn't have a lot of things that my grandmother's home had. You know, we had statues of Mary and, you know, and the crosses and different things that kind of connect us with our family's Catholic background.

Pam: Yeah. Assimilation, assimilation is, is real and often judged by the different intersections of people because we have people like you who are maybe fifth, sixth generation or who knows, you know, and you have a story where very easily people get, and I don't know if you have, but people could be like, oh, you don't speak Spanish? What do you mean?

Danny: All the time to me.

Pam: To me this is why it's important to ask the question of where do you come from? What's your heritage? How long have you been here, what's the roots? Because going back to your mom, like, of course, when she was smacked for speaking Spanish, she's like, I'm not going to talk Spanish anymore. Let alone, like, I don't dare want my kids to speak Spanish because I don't want them to get beat. All of that explains how I think a lot of brown people don't speak Spanish because it goes back to whatever trauma was put onto their parents who then decided not to teach that. So I think that's worth exploring before we judge.

Danny: Yeah, I do feel robbed. You know, because my work, I work with schools and it's like 90% Latino families and they're, most of them are monolingual. I mean, 99% of the parents and it's difficult. And they're looking to me for help sometimes, but I can't even speak Spanish. 80% of my staff is bilingual.

Pam: That's good.

Danny: Yeah. And my kids, my two younger kids, they went to Spanish immersion school. So they're fluent in Spanish.

Pam: Oh my gosh. That's awesome, have them teach you!

Danny: Yeah. Yeah, I know. Right? Yeah. So, you know, I feel like even we're talking about now, I am feeling a little emotional because I'm like, I lost, I feel like, like a part of me that I can't connect with, you know, like a deep part, you know, that connects me with other people that are like me. And it's interesting because I work in a lot of underserved low-income communities and the kids that I work with speak Spanish, but it's kind of broken Spanish and it's interesting because most of them have like heavy accents but have never been to Mexico.

Pam: Oh, wow.

Danny: And so it's because you know, their status, they can't go back and forth. Right. I can identify with them because I think that's how they feel. I went to Mexico more times than them, and I can't even speak Spanish. So it's really interesting, you know, being in this weird like, place, right? Like I'm a Mexican, um, this is a part of who I am, but I can't communicate with the people the way I would like to. And I know the same thing with the kids sometimes. I've heard adults correct them in Spanish, you know, not in a, in a mean way, but just trying to help them because it's, the adults will tell me, it's kind of like a, it's a slang Spanish, you know, they speak a lot of it, you know.

Pam: For sure. I mean, Spanglish is, is a thing and it's a product of having brown people live in the US and I think it's like before I will admit I grew up in Mexico city. And so I went to school in Mexico, like grew up there. I know how to read, write, speak español, and before, not anymore. But at some point in my life, I was like, oh my gosh, if you're going to say like, it's tortilla is not tortilla, or, you know, like pronounce your letters because I was scolded so much there when it comes to the language, which arguably it's also colonizer language. All of this is so layered, I'm loving it. Because when you talk about the kids who live here, who speak Spanish and they have like an accent, I wonder if that's their form of reclaiming their heritage in, in a way that's like subtle enough, but also noticeable that people are like, oh, you're not from here. You know. I wonder if it's a way for them to be like, this is how I'm going to hold onto this.

Danny: Yeah. They're embracing that for who they are, you know, and that's what they want to be. They, they're very proud. And, um, when I talk to these, a lot of our students, you know, they'll, they'll embrace it. But again, I think it's because they're in that place like I am like, you know. For me, I had to question like, who am I, you know what I mean? I'm not like white, I'm brown, but I don't speak the language. And where do I go? Who do I identify with? You know, I kind of like a little bit of both, but, you know, but when you're young, you just want to fit in somewhere. And I think a lot of times it could be very difficult for a young person to when they're trying to do that ike, you know, like they're, they're either going to push one away and embrace the other, or try to fit in everywhere they can to be accepted. You know?

Pam: Danny, you work with youth all time. I think this generation is like on fire, which I think it goes to the work that our generation has done, the previous generation. Like all of this is a result of, you know, give yourself some credit and I don't work with as many young people as you do. But when I like, talk to my niece, for example, who's 11 and she talks I'm like, what? Why are you so awake?

Danny: Yeah. It's interesting because a lot of the kids, yeah, they're, they're really aware, you know, like I think I was afraid, you know, and it was a different time, but these kids are, you know, they'll stand up for a lot of what they believe, but you know, they're, they do need guidance of course, you know, they, they, they can be misguided sometimes. But it's definitely a different time. Yeah. And I, and I love it here, especially like in San Jose, California, they're really embracing the Mexican heritage, the Chicano, the low riding, you know, I know California is, I mean, it's, it's everywhere, but I mean, we're seeing it more that the kids are saying like, well, this is what the picture I saw with my grandpa, my great grandpa, you know, the Pachuco. And I'm just seeing a lot more of that. I'm not saying everybody's doing it, but it's just, it's kind of cool. You know, because when I was a kid, it was just these little spots in the hood, you know, the homies in the hood or the gangsters or whatever. But now it's like more of a style and a culture for the people and they feel, I think they feel really comfortable in it. And I'm happy.

Pam: Yeah. It's a way to connect for sure. And embrace and reclaim identity. The other side of the coin though, which I experienced, which it's, I don't know. I'm curious about your take. So for me as an immigrant kid, I came to LA to high school and I started seeing, so I was in the ESL class with all the immigrants, you know, like I don't speak English. What pains me to think about right now is that I was hanging out with all the brown kids from El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, like all of the Latin American, like even Egypt. Cause I was in the ESL class. And I came to LA to a really big high school. And so there were people from all over the world and then they were the Chicanos on the other side and they would look down on the immigrant kids.
And so it's also that separation that exists with, within our own people, which is something that pains me to this day. I think it's less and less, but it's not, it's still not because when I go to Barrio Logan, for example, here in San Diego, which is the Chicano like neighborhood or place in the city, I still get these like, if you're not from the Barrio, then you're not, like, what you're doing here. You call a nicer gentrifier. And I'm like, but I'm coming here to get some horchata coffee, you know, I think we're working on it, but it's still something that happens. What do you think?

Danny: No. I remember when, and when I was in third grade, there was a low income apartments right behind my school. There were just, you know, the apartments were just every few years, you know, it was Vietnamese, it was Samoan, it would be Latinos. And I remember a lot of kids came from Mexico and we would do the same thing. Of course, like, you know, we were, we felt like we were better, you know, and you know, so that's a part of like who I, you know, like I look back and I'm, I'm, I'm ashamed that I would do that to somebody.And a lot of them became my friends. A lot of the kids, you know, we ended up becoming friends, but I remember the first few weeks and we all knew, everybody knew, but I don't know where the rumor came from or all, you know, but we were just all kind of like, oh yeah, wait, who are these guys? You know.

Pam: And I mean, you can tell they're not from here.

Danny: And you can tell, yeah, of course, but you know, the other thing is I still see it now. So, you know, I am a crisis responder. I created a program for the city of San Jose, a chaplaincy program. I'm an ordained pastor. And so I do violence intervention in San Jose and 90% of our prog 95% of our youth violence is Latino on Latino.

Pam: Wow.

Danny: You know, it's, it's gang violence and we have Norteños and Sureños. Right? And so Norteños are from here originally, right? This is how it was supposed to be. And they wear a red rag and they're Chicanos and, you know, Sureños, you know, were from LA, San Diego and they wear blue rag, but they were also like Chicanos. But now as people are immigrating from Mexico and coming up, and I don't know the entire story, I'm just giving you what--

Pam: What you've heard.

Danny: What I've heard, what I've heard. Yeah. So I'm not like a historian or an expert on this. I'll say this. I'm not trying to brag, but I am an expert in my work, but I'm just saying how the people get to where, to become, to embrace the gang lifestyle? I know that's because they want to be a part of something. They want to be protected and loved. And these types of things. You know, each individual has their own path. But what happens is, you know, most of the low-income neighborhoods that, like the one I was talking about, it's more, um, first-generation Mexican kids. I'm not saying all of them, but they will embrace being a Sureño. So it started a lot of, you know, turf wars and gang violence in our city. And it's at our schools, it's in our neighborhoods. And you think about the Silicon valley, you think about Apple, you think about, you know, Google and all these companies, and you can drive 15, 20 minutes in every direction. You'll see one of their buildings, you know, Tesla, all those things. Right. But nobody knows that there's this other side, you know, because there's a huge gap between the haves and the have-nots. There, there are people that have like a lot here and there are people when, when I visited some of the families that I work with, there's multiple families in a tiny apartment with beds in the living room and, you know, things like that. But, you know, for some of these kids, the kids that I work with, it's their only way out. They feel like the gang, you know, whatever they can get from it, whether it's some sort of power, you know, some sort of money. I don't think a lot of it do it for like drugs, it's more territory here, but if that could be a part of it. And so that's something that, um, you know, that we're working with, you know, because I think for a lot of our Latino kids it's options, they have limited options, you know, for one student, you know, or I was talking with somebody about this, it's like, they lived in one of those neighborhoods. Right. And they said, you know, like this is their options. You know, either you're going to be in the game, you're going to fight the game or you're going avoid the game. That's your options. And it's that kind of pressure, because I know kids that I've talked to, they've called me crying and they'll say, Hey, um, you know, like I, I got jumped in, that's their initiation. For those of you who don't have a background in like, you know, what, what the kid what's happening with the gangs. And I said, well, why did you do it? And cause I tell, I tell all the kids, I said, just don't hang out. I'm not going to be a part of it. If you keep hanging out there, you're going to be a part of it. And it happens all the time. And a lot of these kids, we also help them get out of gangs, but you know, it was just a pressure, you know, like you're here and people pressure them. And so, but they feel like a sense of security, love, empowerment. There's a cost to it, you know, and sadly I'm a crisis responder for the mayor's gang prevention task force. And part of my work is working with homicide victims' families, you know what those that are dealing with loss, or bedside intervention when somebody has been injured through youth violence or gang violence and predominantly it's Latino kids, it's black and brown kids, mostly, you know, our work is just helping them to say, look, there's more for you, you know, we're on campuses and we're like, there's more for you. Here's some other options. Like here's what you can do. So we, we do mentoring. We do life coaching. We do in organizations called The City Peace Project. If people want to learn more about it, thecitypeaceproject.org, but you know, that's a way that we kind of, we hope give them more options and help coach them through life. And sadly, you know, I'm not saying everyone, this is not like a blanket statement, but there's brokenness, and everybody deals with pain, right? In some way, shape or form with a physical or emotional pain. We're walking with these kids through these times. You know, they're not living with mom and dad. They live with grandma, aunt, you know, or single family homes, or, you know, the hard part can be the separation. Mom's still in Mexico, but dad came here to work and they're going to help dad. You know, these are the situations and it's tough and they have no money. And part of the money, their money, they do have goes back to Mexico to help mom and the other kids, you know? So it's a lot, it's a lot.

Pam: So layered.

Danny: Yeah. I mean, this, this conversation can be all day.

Pam: For sure.

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Pam: Another thing that I think about when I hear you talk about all of this violence that's happening in the youth is how it's almost by design, you know, like. Let's put them, meaning us, against each other because when they're fighting with each other, then nobody grows. So they're just keeping themselves busy over there, fighting. Meanwhile, we're over here growing, amassing capital, doing all the things that system continues to work. It continues to work because to your point there isn't, I mean, you're doing the work and by design, there isn't anything in place to say you belong here. To say you don't need to go and engage in these violent acts or getting jumped or whatever it is, because the way that you are, you are whole, you are enough, you are who you need to be and you don't need anything to make you belong to this place. It's a lot.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough to, you know, heartbreaking when there's loss or helping students. Sometimes they don't, you know, they don't get it or they're pursuing that. It's their only option. And, you know, especially if they're not documented, they don't have options. They feel like they don't. And you know, and they're like, okay, then I'm going to do whatever I can.

Pam: To survive.

Danny: To survive. Yeah. And so, you know, and that's how part of like, for me, you know, that's what the book Post Traumatic Quest, you know, it's my quest to transcend trauma, turn my pain to purpose and find peace. That's like me. It's like, you know, when I was talking about earlier, when we moved, I didn't know that my mom's boyfriend was the biggest angel dust or PCP dealer in the area.

Pam: Oh my gosh.

Danny: So he was making it in our garage. Yeah. So our, our house got raided by, I don't know, you know what administrator, I mean, not with administration, what branch, you know, but they came in like, I, you know, you think you're there, like the FBI or something like that, but it's probably the Drug and Firearms.
They came in and kicked in our door, guns out. And I was in third grade.

Pam: Oh man!

Danny: Got my mom on the floor, chased her boyfriend. He's running out in his underwear. They're chasing him. We're all on the floor. We're kids, there's three kids in the house. Right. And the oldest was probably like in fifth or sixth grade. I have a younger brother. And so that was like that whole other traumatizing situation, you know, because we had everything, it just turned from, like, we couldn't buy anything to like, we had sweatsuits and shoes and toys and a big house. And, and so that was a, you know, an interesting change in my life. And I know it just kind of transitioned to that real quick, but I wanted to share, like, that's why we moved to that part of town. You know, it was scary time and that was also traumatizing to me, but also what stuck in my mind is like this guy had everything. You know, it was a risk, you know, he did, he ended up doing five years in prison. My dad was drug dealing too. He was in and out of prison my entire life. You know, I didn't have a father there and he wasn't present when he was there. You know, he's more interested in his own life. And so you're just trying to look for this. Who am I, you know, I went down the path of getting in trouble, a lot of trouble. As a youth. I think that's why I use my experience with the kids. And so, you know, in the story, it's also, it's in a lot more detail in the book, but when I was 14 years old, you know, I didn't see, there was never college on the horizon or like, I'm going to be like, uh, you know, anything, most of the older guys in my neighborhood all were, we'll call them veteranos from prison, you know, stand out in the corner.
So that's who you look up to, right?

Pam: Yes.

Danny: Like you want to be like the guys that have been to prison, they get out. Yeah. And everybody's kind of surrounding them, hearing their stories. And so that's kind of the direction I went, you know, I was like, okay, like this. You know, I'm just going to do it. All the people that I look up to are doing. So what happened is I ended up hanging out with an older kid. We started to, you know, commit crimes, you know, break into homes and steal cars. And I was with my friends and one of them snatched a person. I was identified as the person who did it. I was arrested my first time at, I think, 14 years old with a felony strong armed robbery.
And I went to juvenile hall for 30 days. It was one of the most traumatizing experiences in my life. I had in my past, have a lot of layers of trauma with things that have happened to me as far as like, you know, abuse from adults with choking. And then also like, you know, my brother thought it was funny to lock me in the closet or throw a blanket over me and tell me I can't breathe. And I was a child, you know and he thought it was funny cause I would freak out, but I was claustrophobic. So imagine when I went to juvenile hall, they locked me in a room and I go crazy bang in the doors, and I'm crying and you don't cry in juvenile hall because then everybody, you know, thinks you're weak. So what do you think happened the next 30 days?
I had to prove I wasn't, I was about 85 pounds and I had to prove that I wasn't weak and I, sorry I get a little emotional, but like every day I had a fight and they put me like on a, like on a 23 hour lockdown because of my fighting. So imagine that I'm a fourteen year old boy, I'm locked in my room, 23 hours a day with nothing to do. I don't read well, I try to start reading. I don't write well, it was hard, you know? And I remember like thinking like my life is over. I don't care if I live or die. And I actually embraced an early death in my mind. I was suicidal when I was young, I cut myself. I've been stabbed 11 times, you know, I've been in car accidents where the car flipped over, you know, just drunk driving, whatever it was like, you know, the, that can end the pain, you know? Cause if there was trauma from a child, you know, and, and we're talking about like, so layered on top of the trauma of who are you is like these other traumas of abuse and the words that were spoken, the physical actions that happened in all these different things. And then there's no one there, you know, like, yeah, You know, for me, it was, it's been hard even as, as a, as an adult, because like, you know, um, when I was a child, a white police officer arrested me, a white judge convicted me. So when our white principal paddled me, so it was hard to talk when they, okay. Let's, you're going to talk to like a counselor. Let's get some this going on and from school and, uh, or something like that. And I was like, terrified. You know, even when I was like, it was hard to talk to people because that's all I see my entire life. Like you're in trouble, you know, they're laying a lot on me. I saw that in my life with my dad, my mom's boyfriend, and there's a risk to it, but there's also, I felt like, what do I have to lose? You know, what do, I don't have nothing. I have nothing to lose. I had a very reckless lifestyle, you know, up to about 29 years old.

Pam: Thank you for sharing all of that. And I mean, we can dive deeper into all of it because it's often, I mean, you mentioned the models that you were following. So going back to what I said earlier about like it's by design, you know, like I believe the reason why black and brown youth are in positions where they often find themselves is because it's by design that there's no programs that support them. There isn't like the models that are placed in and it's, you know, trace back generations. And then you're not only carrying your own trauma from your lived experience in this lifetime, but also generational, you know, things that your grandfather lived, the things that he can't even talk about to this day, it's something that you are carrying in your DNA. And so the pain is, I mean, I could understand how, sympathize with the pain of, of even existing, you know, like, do I even deserve to exist in the world? Because everything that happens is so painful. Oh my gosh.

Danny: Yeah. But you know, one thing I've learned is, is forgiveness. And, you know, some things are hard to forgive, but I learned that love forgiveness, generosity, that these things change a lot, you know? And so that's what helped as a part, I guess, a part of my healing, you know, I'm, I'm a man of faith, you know, I have, I have faith in God and I really take the teachings that I've learned about forgiveness. You know, I've put them into practice and I know now I'm loved and I'm accepted, you know, I'm not out there, you know, with a Bible, hitting people over the head or anything like that. But you know, things that I'll say to the students is, you know, like you're valuable and you're lovable because you're human being, you know, you have worth, you know, I talk with them about like, you know, You know, where you live, what color your skin is, how much money your parents have in the bank, what kind of shoes you're wearing? You're valuable and lovable, because you're a human being. You're not fully who you are yet. You're still growing, you know? And so that's the message that I share, the message of value and of love. And you know, when I'm on a campus, you know, let's hear what's difficult coming back to in-person school. And there was a lot of fights and a lot of tension. Um, it's the first year that I've got disrespected on campus because people didn't know me. And so. I was like, God help me, like, how do I identify? You know, like with these kids, how do I connect with them? I know I knew a lot of them from summer school, but some of them, I didn't know. I had this vision of like, there's a story in the Bible of Jesus multiplying the bread and the fish. So I use Takis and Little Caesars and, you know, the chips, talking chips and hot Cheetos to give to the kids and it, and it broke down that wall. Like I would, I go into campus, I have a speaker and I'll be like, Hey, we have chips. How much are they? They're free. I love you guys. And you should see some of the faces. They're like, wait. And now they tell me my nickname on the campus is peacemaker, even when, if they're calling their parents and they're like, oh, um, hold on one mom, I'm talking to the peacemaker on the campus. Or they'll go by [inaudible]. Yeah. So every day that's what I do. I try. I mean, we do other things like conflict resolution, gang intervention, tutoring, and other types of goal setting for the students. But like during the free time at lunch where we're giving out pizza, I have a peacemaker leadership program. We do a lot of different things. And, um, it's funny because like, you know, that broke down the walls. You know, a lot of these kids, if Takis is listening, please sponsor me.

Pam: I know! They need to send you boxes.

Danny: Yeah. Boxes, yeah. I would go out there and we give the kids Takis and it's a way for us to talk and to connect.

Pam: Connecting through food. One of my favorite things.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, you know, it's just, I think again, there was a lot of division, two groups here and they're at different schools and we're breaking those walls down.

Pam: How fun.

Danny: It's so important. Again, going back to like love and forgiveness and you know, just reaching out. Like I tell students I work with, when I first meet them, if we're in a group, I said, we don't have a history. You've never lied to me. So I'll believe everything you tell me, let's not break that, you know, and I want to support you to be successful and whatever you're doing in life, but you have to help me. I say, we can surround you with people. But if you don't believe in yourself, then it's impossible.

Pam: 100%. Oh my gosh. Okay. Let's take a quick coffee break and then we'll come back to your story.

***

Pam: So, Danny, do you drink coffee? I see your drink coffee.

Danny: I do drink coffee.

Pam: Do you have a local coffee shop that you support?

Danny: I don't. I walked down the street.

Pam: It's close. Yeah. So that's the thing that that's happened with fast, convenient food is it's convenient. You know, it's a lot of people to literally walk down the street and like I have, I have one down the street.

Danny: I walked down, like, it's my walk in the morning. I do like a morning walk and I go over there on the east side of San Jose. Like, you know, there's a lot more local owned coffee shops, but there's, I don't think there's any in walking distance or south San Jose.

Pam: How do you drink your coffee?

Danny: I just get just a regular coffee with a shot of espresso and, and, um, cream, heavy cream, no sugar.

Pam: Oh, so. Do you get like a hammerhead?

Danny: Is that what it's called? I never knew that was the name.

Pam: Like coffee plus the shot.

Danny: Yeah.

Pam: Yeah. Like you really wanna be up there.

Danny: Yeah. That's why right now I'm trying to, like you asked, you know, a couple of questions and I'll just give you the whole story.

Pam: Great, I'm here for that. Well, for me, I am drinking my regular good old black coffee. I just literally, however it comes out, that's how I drink it. I have been drinking drip, which is like shame on me for all my coffee connoisseurs. Like all my coffee snobs are gonna be like "ew, Pam, really?", but you know, convenience. And when I do make the time. I, and also frankly, true story it's because my mom lives with me. And so I'm not gonna like, make her pour over, just takes a long time, and she's like, just give him a drip. So that's why we transitioned. On the weekends though, that's when I make like drips and maybe the espresso, the greca they get got the like old old-school espresso machine. Like that kinda thing it's more ritualistic and, and slow. But during weekdays, when we're working, it's good old drip, black coffee, nothing added. And well, I drink mushroom coffee. So the mushroom helps with my focus and concentration. So that works. And today I want to give a shout out to Cafe X from San Diego. So it's a mom and daughter coffee shop. I've not had a chance to visit them because they are kind of like a little bit away from me. Maybe today I will. And they are a mom and daughter coffee shop. I learned about them. Shout out to the manis Coquito for the soul who told me about them. And we'll see, we'll check them out. Maybe I'll post about them when I go visit them. But I'm all about, you know, family owned businesses. Okay. So let's get back to the show.

***

Pam: So, Danny, I have so many questions. And I mean, one again, thank you for your testimony and sharing your story, like parts of it, because while it's still painful, I think it also supports the youth that you're helping connect with you. Because I would think just from, from a human perspective, finding someone, who's like, look, I grew up here. I went through this, I lived it. I get it. Versus like me walking in. Like, I want to help you. They are gonna be like, who are you? You don't even know my neighborhood, you know?

Danny: Yeah. That's so true.

Pam: It makes such a difference to have someone who truly knows. It's like, I've lived through what you're about to, so let me help you avoid that.

Danny: And I'm from here, I'm exactly from where they're from. And because of my behavior issues in school, I went to a lot of the schools that I work at. So, you know, I moved around. So I'm like, hey, I mean, because I go and do author talks at the school and I share my books. So any school that I'm on campus, everything's free. You know, as far as like, when, I mean, like, as far as like we bring the food because we have generous donors that donate for the Takis, for the pizza and, you know, people donate for the books or their school buys books. And so if I'm on your campus and some of the teachers have mentioned, like my kids have not engaged or did any work, but when they got your book, they're reading it and they're talking about it. And because it's interesting to them, for them, it's from their own neighborhood, they connect with it. And the reason we put this book out is because you know, there's layers of trauma. And a lot of people deal with the things I'm dealing a lot of kids, and it could be whether it's here, it could be Mexico, it can be anywhere, you know, that you visit, you know, there's, there's always a low-income, there's always like areas that have low income, violence, drugs, it's everywhere, you know. And a lot of things that I've dealt with, you know, everybody has their own specific story, but some of us have some of the same things that have happened in our lives. So, you know, that's why I think it's so, you know, like I think a lot of youth are connecting with it and we're finding out through, cause it's on Amazon through some of our reviews that social workers are reading it. Teachers are reading it and reviewing it, and it helps them to see beyond the surface. Cause it's, it's difficult maybe to be in a classroom. It's, I mean, I commend teachers. It's a very hard job. It's a calling. I'm not going to call it a job. It's a calling and this year has probably been difficult. So if you're a teacher and you're listening, thank you. A little hard for you all. Um, because it's so hard, you know, and it's hard for the students coming back, you know, it's been really difficult, I think sometimes to see beyond some of the behavior issues than the lack of not doing their work. And it, I mean, I believe it's like trauma from dis you know, maybe just the distance learning. Yeah. And, um, sheltering in place in a worldwide pandemic, of course, you know, it's gonna affect, you know.

Pam: I call it COVID brain.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. You know, like this is kind of, re-engaging some of the kids, you know, the book and, um, I go on classrooms if they ask and I will talk about the book and my story and about my program and about some of the, the awesome opportunities I had because as a child I never had, I didn't leave my neighborhood. I didn't go anywhere, you know. And you know, when my life changed, I've had the opportunity to travel a lot, all over the United States to other countries I've been spoken Mexico, in Guadalajara. It was cause I was a, um, with a group of tech entrepreneurs and they brought a social entrepreneur with them and they translate it for me, but it was really awesome experience.

Pam: That's amazing!

Danny: I've been to the Middle East, I wenrt to Israel, the Netherlands. Yeah. So it's been really cool to be able to travel. I worked with the department of justice because my program was recognized in 2012, I was nominated and awarded White House Champion of Change for Youth Violence Intervention by president Barack Obama. So I've been able to have all these awesome experiences because of this, you know, and I, and I share with the kids like this is possible for you. I'm not, I don't say these things to brag. This is possible like I'm this Chicano from east side with no education with, uh, with a record at every obstacle in front of me that I should not be doing what I'm doing.

Pam: All the odds are against you.

Danny: Yeah. All the odds are against me. And I could have been just a statistic of recidivism going in and out of being incarcerated. I started at 14. I ended that time at 29, you know, so I was just in and out, in and out, in and out of being incarcerated. You know, I was institutionalized, you know, I dealt with racism, I dealt with all these different things that, you know, I could have just, you know, with near-death experiences and, or I could just be sulking. And I, you know, I, I turned it around. I turned my pain to purpose.

Pam: How did that happen?

Danny: For me-

Pam: What happened at 29?

Danny: Well, I had a near death experience. And I, I was on parole. I couldn't drink or, you know, of course not do drugs, but, uh, me being weak to those things the day before I was, they were going to test me for the drugs, I did them.

Pam: The day before.

Danny: All night, the day before, and I knew they were coming. I knew the guy was coming in the next day. And then somebody came over and said, we have it. And this is how weak I was, and so much I wanted to disconnect from reality. This is how much I wanted, you know, that, that took away the pain from the trauma. But then the next day there's a prison, you know, myth that if you drink baking soda, it cleans out your system. Right? So everything I do is like extreme. So, I'm drinking baking soda, and it gets me extremely sick. And I began to vomit and I vomited what looked like blood coming. And I fell on the floor, I'm shaking. I'm like, you know, I have flirted with death, messed up, beat up, you know, attempted suicide multiple times. When I felt like death really faced me, I really wanted to live, you know, and I fell down on my knees and I was like, cause I had heard about, you know, the Bible and about God, and this is my experience. I was like, if you're real God, like, can you help me? Because I want to live. I don't want to die. And I was in my mom's bathroom, nobody was home. I was crying, as blood all over me and I cried out to God. And you know what, that moment I'd never felt more alive in my entire life. You know, when I, when, when I called out to God, like I felt the freedom, you know, that I was loved and that I was accepted and you know, it just, Jesus radically transformed me. You know, that's something that happened for me. And I was like, whoa. And, you know, there was clarity and freedom. I was on drugs and I felt like I wasn't on drugs anymore. I felt like free, you know, and, and my life has never been the same ever since radically changed.

Pam: There was a switch.

Danny: Yeah. It's switched like that. I don't-- there's, everybody has their own stories. Some people could take longer, you know, somebody might even be faster, but it was like, I did not want to be around the people that were doing drugs anymore. I left everything and-

Pam: How hard was it though?

Danny: You know, it wasn't hard, when you're 29 and you have nothing because you know what it was, it was like the, you know what, for people that are addicted, like you're always trying to get that high, the feeling, you're always chasing that feeling. And that's what I spent my entire life trying to-- and for me it wasn't the high feeling. I think it was to stop the pain because there was this deep pain and I didn't know where it was coming from. That's why this suicidal thoughts. That's why, you know, the attempts. That's why the not caring. And when, when I felt the love and acceptance, the pain left. There wasn't a pain, you know, I think I didn't want to drink anymore. I would drink because it would take away all the pain. I didn't want to be with certain crews because it just wasn't me anymore. It was like pretty quick. I mean, yeah, I did. I hung out a few times with a few friends, but it was nothing like I was out, they, they knew something happened. They couldn't believe it. They were like, what happened? And so, it was radical, you know, I was this whole different person. And, you know, I really wanted to learn. One thing I talk with youth about is reading, right? It's how important it is, right. It expands your understanding, your vocabulary. And I read the Bible and I read the whole thing and I can't read well, and it's, it's pretty tough to read through it, you know, and, but it helped me to communicate better. You know, my, before that I was just dropping F bombs and just saying filler words.

Pam: Filling in.

Danny: Yeah. And, but, you know, I was able to start communicating with people and I started to have a lot of opportunity when I first started to go to church. You know, I was ashamed because I thought everybody was perfect there. And I didn't want anybody to know who I was, you know, like the past I had, but you know, the more I started to embrace who I was, the more things change, the more doors open. And then, you know, I was pastoring for a while and I think I try to be other people, you know, I want to be this elegant speaker that did not fit my, you know, who I was. But when I just started speaking from my heart, that's when things really changed, you know, like the love that I felt, the experience. And that's what I believe got me to where I am today. I just share it with the kids, like, you know, just read, it's so important. Well, they'll say, well, what do I need this stuff for? I said, anytime you're reading, anytime you're writing at any time you're doing math, it's going to help you in life. I'm gonna tell you, anytime, it doesn't matter if it's relevant. I mean, you know, you're, maybe you're not going to be historian and you read about history, but you're, you're gaining understanding and knowledge as you read. And that's what helped me, you know, and that's why the book we wrote it, like at a fifth or sixth grade level, so that they would be interested in reading it. You know, they wanna, they, it would be easier for them, the chapters are really short, you know? Yeah. That was my transformation. It was, you know, I think later it became a little difficult, because, you know, like it took years for me to start thinking about that stuff again, you know, with alcohol and things like that, because we have to be careful with purpose sometimes because you have passion for life, but you know, you don't want to wear yourself out.

Pam: Right.

Danny: Like I wore myself out. I was doing everything for everyone else and it was neglecting my family for good things. Not for the bad things. So it didn't, you know, I justified it and I had to come to a place that I'm loved and accepted just the way I am. If I do nothing.

Pam: Without the extremes.

Danny: Yeah, without the extremes, without going to every single home and passing out food and doing all these different things that were nice things, they were helpful things and were caring things. I had to have a self care, you know, I needed my day of rest. You know, I needed my time with my family, my wife and my kids. I needed a lot of things. And you know, for me, I love skateboarding. Right. Even though I wore that short when I was a kid and they made fun of me, I skateboard with my youngest son, him and I go out and skateboard and, uh, I drop into bowls and that's my self care, you know, or taking walks or things like that. You know, for the listeners that are driven in that purpose and are doing things like, for people like do this type of work that I do. You're constantly trying to think of ways to help people. It doesn't shut off. You know, it doesn't shut off and you have to like give yourself a break, you know, because I deal with, I deal with loss. I deal with death. I deal with people that are getting evicted. I deal with, you know, injury and, you know, just these hard situations and I need to be ready to help.

Pam: For sure. Okay. So tell us where we can find the book, where we can find you, all of the things.

Danny: All right. So the book I have it right here. We have it in soft and hard hardcover and audio book. It's Post Traumatic Quest. You can find it on Amazon or posttraumaticquest.com. It's my quest to transcend trauma to my pain, to purpose and find peace. Um, you can find us, The City Peace Project on thecitypeaceproject.org. You can find us on Instagram @thecitypeaceproject, one word, and you'll see a lot of the stuff that I'm talking about, the Taki thing and all that stuff. You'll see it all on there. You can follow me personally. You see my skateboarding and more about the book @pastordanny_sanchez. And also you can check us out on YouTube, The City Peace Project, and on Facebook, Danny Sanchez, there's a lot of different ways for you to, uh, to check in with us. And I'd love to hear from you. One thing I want to share real quick, um, for incarcerated youth, we in Santa Clara County, we gave out every kid in juvenile hall received a copy [inaudible] jail for free. We give them a copy. So, you know, just, you know, keep that in mind. We do get the books out to help youth. I've got letters, which are awesome. If anybody wants to send a message or I have people that have kids or nephews or neighbors that are in trouble or are going down the wrong path, reach out to me, danny@tcpp.org That's my email. Just reach out to me and send me an email and I'd love to, to connect with you.

Pam: Amazing. The very last two questions. Do you have remedio that you want to share?

Danny: Yeah, so I, you know, sana sana, rubbing my stomach. [laughs] That helps, that's that's one of my remedies. Yeah.

Pam: Perfect. And do you have a quote or mantra that you live by?

Danny: You know, be a peacemaker. I think it makes life way different, you know, when we, um, when we're peacemakers and that's, that's the message we want to send to our young people.

Pam: I love that. Danny, thank you so, so much for sharing your story. It was amazing. Thank you for opening up and, and your vulnerability is so admiring. I'm so moved by your story. Thank you for all your work because you are changing lives every day and it's so amazing. Thank you so much for being at Cafe con Pam.

Danny: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. And it was great talking with you. I feel so comfortable talking with you and be down here and thank you all listeners for being here.

***

Pam: Okay, listeners. That was my conversation with Danny. What do you think? What resonated with you? What was activated within you? As always I hope you take care of yourself as you were listening. I hope you took the time to process and those of you who have worked with me, tap. You can, you can tap on your collarbone, if you feel some kind of activation because Danny's story is powerful.
And it's one that is so inspiring. And at the same time, it's one that's highly activating because hearing that a human being has gone through so much and endured so much, it's, especially if you're an empath, it's painful. And so I do want to hold space for you to allow yourself to process and integrate into what we just heard. And thank you to Danny again, for really sharing all the things we talked about. Identity. We talked about purpose. We talked about doing good. We talked about self care so much, and it was all so powerful, especially also another thing, hearing it from a man, because this is, I don't think self care especially is something that is often conversed within men. And so it was really refreshing to hear Danny be like, yeah, self-care is important. And you know, I need time off to replenish. So I support that. I am so curious to know and learn about what inspired you from this episode. Maybe you have been thinking about helping. Because it's in your heart. And as you heard Danny share all of his intersections and how basically on paper, like we said, on the episode, he has all odds against him, on paper. However, his passion, his purpose, his heart, his giving self has made a career out of helping and being a lending hand to others and changing the trajectory of the youth. Uh, how powerful is that? And so if you have been thinking about a project that maybe will help and support others, you're like, oh, I don't have the resources, or I don't have the studies, or I don't have the school or the wisdom or whatever it is just now use Danny's testimony to see that, having an idea, having the heart, the passion taking one step can take you to that door that you're looking to open. And it really is not giving up, that can take you into that place of all right. Maybe the table wasn't set up for me, but hey, I got the key to the door. So, um, but to make myself welcome in here and I would love to know. Screenshot, tag me on social, tag Danny on social, let us know what resonated with you, because this is how we'll continue to grow is by hearing stories, by hearing the models that maybe we don't have growing up, that maybe we don't have at arms reach. And this is one of the reasons why I create this podcast, because my hope is that while you may not have a model that looks and sounds like you, that has created awesome things at arms reach, you have a model, at ears reach. You can just put your headphones in and select an episode and maybe resonate with somebody's story that can inspire you to take one tiny action into that place where you want to go. Because it's possible, not only from Danny's story, but also my own, also my own.

And thank you so much for being here. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Your reviews mean so, so much to me. And if this is your first time, please subscribe. That helps the podcast a ton. If you are a subscriber, because that counts as someone who cares about the show. I've heard people will be like, oh, I don't subscribe because it takes up my, my memory. So there's a setting on your phone that you can tell your phone, don't download the episode. I just want to listen off the internet. So your memory doesn't take up. So I've heard some people be like, this is why I haven't subscribed. I just kinda like remember to listen to you. And I'm like, well, don't trust your brain so much. Allow your brain to think about the things that you care about, not listening to this. That give it a task to send you a little reminder when Cafe con Pam drops, but not download the show perhaps on your phone so you don't take up your memory space. So subscribing supports the show in so many ways. You have no idea. Reviews also help and ratings, so if you're pressed with time, you can just simply leave five stars. Appreciate it. You can leave some stars. It's very quick. It's very simple. If you have a little bit more time and you were moved perhaps by the episode or the stories of the people that we continue to share here at Cafe con Pam, then you can take a little bit more time and leave a review. Some questions that you can ask yourself is what do you love about the show? What was the expectation before you tuned in? What happened after you tuned in? And how would you describe the show to your best friend? How would you say, hey, this is an episode that I want you to listen to because. So those are some prompts that you can take and run with them. Use them as you please, not only for this show, but others as well because leaving reviews it's like leaving a nice tip to your host and we appreciate it so, so much. And look, if you're like, I'm driving Pam, why are you asking me to do things? You don't have to do anything. Just listen to the end. That also counts. Thank you so much for being here.

I am so grateful for all the new reviews that have landed. Thank you so, so much for your words. I so appreciate every single one of you and every single one of your ears, because I don't take for granted your time here. I hope you feel comfortable in my side of the internet, my little corner of the internet, this is your space. This is your place. And my hope is that you feel like you belong. Especially during this episode, we talked about belonging so much. And one of the reasons why Cafe con Pam exists is because I want us all to feel like there is a place in the world for us. There's a place for us to exist with freedom, with ease, with abundance, with love, and also with feelings, because things are not always peachy and there's a place and a space where you can say, you know, I'm feeling some stuff and it's okay to feel.

Let's connect, I would love to connect. We can chat via the social medias @cafeconpampodcast on Instagram and Facebook. I recommend you, if you're like, what do you do Pam? Join the five day tapping challenge. So I have two five day challenges. One is the Get Organized challenge the other one is a five day Tapping Challenge. So the five day Tapping Challenge is one that we did at the beginning of the year, some time. And it was lovely. It was five days live, but you can join it and kind of like take it at your own pace. I recommend setting up a time in the morning. We meet for 15 minutes, no more than 15 minutes. We tap together and you'll zip yourself up. You will understand what that means. You'll zip yourself up and you will feel protected for the world. And basically the five day tapping challenge is a little bit of a taste of how I work and what I do, which I incorporate EFT tapping into everything that I do. And this is a nice little taste if you have been curious about what is Pam doing now. Especially if you are someone who's listened to me since 2016. Can you believe we've been here since 2016? Anyway, you can also join our Discord server. It's an online place where we can have conversations. It's pretty awesome. If I say so myself, because the thing is that I don't make the community, you make the community. And so the more you show up, the more everything grows, like it's like flowers, you know, it's like the more you water the lawn, the more of the flowers show up. So if you want to check it out is stayshining.club. And we have lots of conversations about being first-generation, about our pets, about our parents and how we connect with them. And, and, you know, we do the first gen thing and second gen thing and the third gen thing and all the things that are related to our identity and how we are seen by the world. Join us, is super fun, stayshining.club. Also as a business owner, the offers that I have to support you and your growth are Power Sisters.
This is a mindful productivity program. It's all about accountability. It's all about really aligning what it is that you want to do with your intentions, your goals, your purpose, and making a plan, inserting rest in the process. And I pair you up. It's the first program that pairs you up with your own power sister. And so you get an accountability person that you are constantly talking to, that you are walking side to side with, and you are discovering your goals together. We also have tapping inside of Power Sisters. We have monthly tapping circles. You get a monthly lesson about liberation. It's super fun. And the other offer if you are a business owner, a woman owned business owner, then you can join Aligned and Aligned is my mastermind where I support you through the creation of a liberated business. Because I believe in liberation, I believe we can create better businesses because more is not better, better is better. And so as we create better businesses, then we can liberate ourselves from overworking. We can liberate ourselves from Calladita culture, which is what's kept us small. What has kept us quiet. What has kept us not creating, not showing up. We can create liberated practices that support everyone. So we do it with built-in sustainability, with built in rest, with built-in joy and all from a lens of us, bilinguals. And we do what we super cafe con lecha and our pastel, or our concha or an empanada, or I don't know. Tell me more. I want to know what's your form of a concha. And I know in Argentina this is like, not what I'm thinking. So yeah, this is where we get into cement anyway.

Okay. So let's stay connected. I love to stay connected with you and talking to this microphone is sometimes lonely. And sometimes I feel like I'm literally, I have you all in mind and I feel like we're having a conversation and then I pause and I'm like, yeah, nobody's responding. Okay. We're done. Thank you so much for being here. So appreciate you just stay connected. See you on the next one. Hear you on the next one. Y como siempre, stay shining.