Voices Across Borders: An Insightful Conversation with Gabriel Dozal and Natasha Tiniacos
In today’s Pour Over we have a conversation with two remarkable individuals, Gabriel Dozal and Natasha Tiniacos. Gabriel, the author of the thought-provoking book "The Border Simulator," and Natasha, the talented translator who brought its essence to Spanish readers, share their unique perspectives on creativity, cultural influences, and the profound impact of literature. From their upbringing to their professional achievements, join us as we uncover the inspiring journey of these passionate voices in the literary world.
What is the most rewarding part of your work?:
Gabriel: Any kind of creative writing type of teaching is very rewarding. I feel like I have a lot to offer students wanting to get better at writing and expressing themselves.
Turning 101 and 102 Composition students onto poetry is always a great feeling. There’s some very talented poets tucked away in my Composition Courses and it’s neat to see when someone discovers they’re good at writing poems.
Natasha: As a literary translator, it is incredibly rewarding to bring a poet’s sound and meaning into a new language, to make it exist in a different music, and in a different cultural coding. I become a sort of magical vehicle, a ventriloquist.
How would you say your upbringing and cultural background contributed to your career aspirations?:
Gabriel: My father Roberto Dozal was a Middle School Art Teacher and my mom, Olga Fernandez, was a secretary for The Region 19 Migrant Program and we lived in an economically poor area of El Paso (The Lower Valley). I grew up observing My Dad’s dedication to his art form, painting southwest landscapes and portraits in acrylics and oils and now I try to imitate this process through my writing. My mom’s program assisted the children of migrant workers in getting school supplies and generally helped close the gap for children of migrant workers in terms of their education. All of this makes its way into my writing and is a constant influence on the themes (Borders/Technology) and language (puns/misheard lyrics like This is the Rhythm of the Night / esos son reebok o son nike).
Natasha: I had a spectacular childhood. I credit my parents for that, a base to choose my freedom -which has always been literature and music. I don’t come from a family of writers, but their unconditional support made my career possible. My mother saved all her salary to get me an acoustic piano, which was the start of everything for me. My literature teacher was very passionate and it was inspiring. Also, the Venezuelan educational system in my time presented Federico García Lorca in my sophomore year, who can resist that?!
What is the phrase, sentence, or conversation that stopped you in your tracks and changed your outlook in life?:
Gabriel: “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.“ It was definitely this John Stuart Mills quote that helped me develop themes in The Border Simulator because by following this JSM quote, I began to feel free to explore opposing viewpoints from the ones I was trying to represent in the book. I wanted friction and varying viewpoints to enter the book and this is done through the voicin-ess of Customs (a sort of chorus voice) and the characters Primtivo and Primtiva. This friction has made my work stand out and is a semi easter egg sort of strategy for myself but I think anyone who digs deeper than surface level in the poems will discover a fierce individualism and curiosity for our current cultural and technological moment.
Natasha: In the year 2019 I requested political asylum and the officer asked me, in the interview, “Why poetry?”
What are you committed to doing no matter what happens?:
Gabriel: Reading, Writing, and working out/playing tennis. If I could do this and also find time to teach I would call that time well spent.
Natasha: Poetry.
Where might you be found on a Saturday afternoon with no plans?:
Gabriel: Playing tennis or working out. I wish I was a professional athlete so bad and I’ve worked my way to 4.0-4.5 ranking. Unfortunately my body is starting to break down so I’m hoping to squeeze a little more quality tennis before I’m too old!
Natasha: I would love to say that you can find me strolling any museum of NYC, but as a translator, poet and Ph.D. candidate, you are going to find me snacking popcorn as I write from home.
What is something you’re willing to start all over again? :
Gabriel: My prose! I keep restarting like 4 different prose/fiction projects and when I’m frustrated I start another, a hydra effect! I’m trying to teach myself prose; please help!
Natasha: The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus.
Hustle culture and burnout is so prominent in our community. How do you prioritize self care?:
Gabriel: I wish I knew! But I like the hustle even if I’m not that good at it. The hard work ethic that my parents and grandparents instilled in me makes its way to my art and my teaching. I love teaching Creative Writing and Composition. But there’s so much I want to do that I’d rather max out or burn out than not give it my all. I’m very much a try hard in his way but I guess that stems from the fact that I’m a very slow worker so I have to put a lot effort into getting things done.
Natasha: NYC hustle culture teaches you that self-care is a hashtag for consumerism. Long walks! Opera night! The irrevocable resistance of being lazy! Drop the screens! Slow cooking! Say no! Say yes! Bailar. I do encourage my students to become advocates of themselves. As a Latin American woman, I know that life is pleasure as well.
How do you stay connected to your culture, heritage, and community?:
Gabriel: I live in Tucson Arizona, which is not a world different than El Paso. Laura (my wife) and I often travel to El Paso to spend time with our family. Whenever I’m in El Paso I’m always looking for unexpected stories or situations of the border. For example, the lives of people who cross daily, the economy and stores in downtown El Paso that are made for these crossers—this is where I want my poems to live. This amazing blurring , blending, and bending transition from Juarez to EL Paso injects the city with an amazing energy.
Natasha: I live in the US as a political asylee, but I continue to write poetry in Spanish, to translate into Spanish and do research about Latin American and Latinx cultural artifacts. Places are relationships we cultivate, specially if we choose to cultivate our home country. Currently, I am part of the jury of a prestigious National Poetry Contest in Venezuela, el Premio de Poesía Joven Rafael Cadenas. This is a direct and rigorous link with my community and my home.
What would 18-year-old you say about where you are at in life now? :
Gabriel: I asked CHat GPT 4 to answer this question in the style of comedian Tim Dillon and I’m pretty happy with the results and how they parallel my own experience:
"Oh, 18-year-old me? That kid? He'd take one look at my life now and say, 'What the hell happened to us? Did we join a cult or something? Because this definitely wasn't the plan.' Then he'd probably ask if we're at least rich yet, and when I'd shake my head, he'd just sigh and say, 'Well, did we have fun getting here at least?' And you know, despite the chaos, I'd have to tell him, 'Yeah, in the most absurd, roundabout way, we did.' Then he’d roll his eyes, steal my wallet, and go buy something stupid, like an investment in cryptocurrency or a round of drinks for people we barely know. Classic us, always thinking we’re one step away from greatness or a spectacular failure. Spoiler alert: it's both!"
One thing 18 year old me would be blown away by is my favorite lines from my brother in poetry Gabriel Palacios: “Sometimes I forget that even I’m in a cult”.
It reminds me that I am not free of the cognitive biases and fallacies that plague us humans and I need to continue to interrogate my own beliefs and those of others to arrive at smarter occlusions, I mean, conclusions! about our world and technology.
Natasha: “I knew it!”
What accomplishment are you most proud of, both in your personal and professional life?:
Gabriel: The Border Simulator/El Simulador de Fronteras is definitely my most proud moment professionally. I dreamed as a young reader and writer that I would one day have a book on Penguin or Random House. Also, my publisher One World (a division of PRH) only publishes 1 book of poetry a year. I feel extremely lucky but I know I also have worked my ass off for the past 10 years of my writing career.
In my personal life, my rock and my tennis partner is my wife, Laura and she helps me function and be a better person. It’s no secret that all of my success has coincided with our relationship.
Natasha: As a translator, The Border Simulator/ El simulador de fronteras by Gabriel Dozal because it’s my first major translation into Spanish. I admire that One World editors wanted his book also in Spanish, this is a way to shape the canon and the market! As a poet, my books Mujer a fuego lento and Historia privada de un etcétera, and my first bilingual poetry collection upcoming in Ugly Duckling Presse Against the Regime of the Fluent/ Contra el régimen de lo fluido with English translations by Beca Alderete Baca. I’m also enamored by research and becoming a doctoral candidate researching disability has been a stunning achievement!
In the personal realm, I have been feeling proud of how us, immigrant families, have to reconstruct their ties with no previous knowledge, when a child translate for her mom of her dad, to rebuild our networks of affection in new lands, to restart from zero.
Drink 🫖
What is Gabriel’s go-to drink?
Double shot of espresso and small drip coffee or pour over from Savaya Coffee in Tucson, Arizona
Listening To 🎧
What is Gabriel listening to at the moment?
Listenig to The Sense of Style by Steven Pinker and reading The Visiting Privelage by Joy Williams.
Your Truth 🗣️
What is a Gabriel’s truth?
The writing of Elfriede Jelinek (2004 Nobel Laureate) has shaped my writing like no othter. She is the most exhilarating writer in the world and I write in her shadow.
Your Plug 🔌
What is Gabriel plugging today?
My book The Border Simulator/El Simulador de Fronteras (One World/Random house) tries to write about not only the ever shifting laws and humanity of the border but also takes on our current technological moment.
More about Gabriel Dozal and Natasha Tiniacos
Gabriel Dozal is from El Paso, Texas. He received his MFA in Creative Writing from The University of Arizona and he is a poetry editor for DIAGRAM and his work appears in Poetry Magazine, The Iowa Review, Guernica, The Brooklyn Rail, The Literary Review, Pleiades, and The Baffler.
Natasha Tiniacos is a poet, literary translator, and scholar. She did her MFA in Creative Writing in Spanish at New York University.
