259 - Healing Generational Wounds with Claudia Parada

Jun 12

259 - Healing Generational Wounds with Claudia Parada

Listeners, we're back this week with Claudia Parada

Claudia is a Nicaraguense, First Gen Latinx Mama living on occupied Ramaytush Ohlone Lands known as San Francisco, CA. She's unapologetically pro-Latinx femme, centering these folks in her healing work - therapy, energy work, and antiracism trainings.

She created Claudia Parada Energy to finally give space and power to first-generation Latinas through a range of therapeutic practices. Rooted in shared cultural experiences and built on years of exploring traditional and ancestral healing, she offers guidance from a grounded place of knowing how bright you can become.

That means helping you break generational patterns that only hold you back, showing you how to create balance in order to embrace your true Self, and helping you reignite passion and motivation in everything you do — yes, it’s possible!

To guide you on this journey, she brings a wealth of knowledge in psychotherapy, Latin American studies, and a continued practice in energy healing, Mesoamerican Medicina and Gestalt awareness training.

During this episode we talked about:

07:34 - Mother-daughter relationship and being the youngest
11:19 - Looking outside
13:32 - Being a good enough caretaker
15:35 - Experimental learners
17:06 - Parenting and anxiety
25:14 - Going to a predominantly white school
31:05 - Disentangling from her mom
34:21 - Staying true to herself
43:13 - Becoming a therapist
45:32 - Mental health and physical body
48:28 - Psychology and curanderismo

Hello everyone, this is Pam de Cafe con Pam, the bilingual podcast that features Latine, Latinx, and people of the global majority who break barriers, change lives and make this world a better place. Welcome to episode 259 of Cafe con Pam. Today we have a conversation with Claudia Parada.
Claudia is nicaragüense, first gen Latinx mama, who unapologetically lives as pro Latinx fem, centering folks in her healing work therapy, energy work, and anti-racism trainings.
Claudia started her business to finally give space and power to first generation Latinas through a range of therapeutic practices. Claudia is rooted in shared cultural experiences and built on years of exploring traditional and ancestral healing. And she offers guidance from a grounded place of knowing how bright you can become.
Claudia supports you in breaking generational patterns that only hold you back, showing you how to create balance in order to embrace your True self, and helping you reignite passion and motivation in everything you do. To guide you on this journey Claudia brings a wealth of knowledge and psychotherapy, Latin American studies and continued practice in energy healing, Mesoamerican medicina, and Gestalt awareness training.
Listeners, this conversation with Claudia was, I always say this,so fun. But it truly was. I had a great time talking to her because first we had never met and we do pretty similar, I think, it's parallel work that we do. And we care about, our values align. They're pretty similar, which is amazing when you get to meet people that are doing work that is similar to yours, and then you get to have conversations about their life and connections. That just feels good. You know, when you have those talks that you're like, oh, this felt delicious, like a good warm cup of coffee, pun intended.
***
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***
Pero, de verdad, I really had a lot of fun with Claudia. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about her upbringing, her coming from Nicaragua. We did talk a lot about the mother wound that is often kind of overlooked, I would say because it's the matriarch of our households, and one that is so common in brown people's homes and maybe not just brown people a bit. I'll be curious to, to hear your thoughts on Claudia's story and see if you are not of Latin American descent, I'm curious to hear if you resonate with it because the mother wound is one that is often hidden in different ways of our subconscious. And so I hope you like our conversation. It was really candid. We kind of like dove in and went deep and explored a lot. Sin más, aquí les dejo my conversation with Claudia Parada.
***
Pam: Claudia, welcome to Cafe con Pam. How are you?
Claudia: Thank you. Thanks for welcoming me. I'm totally fangirling right now. I'm like so excited to meet you.
Pam: I'm excited to meet you! So the first question that we always ask is what is your heritage?
Claudia: Ooh. Okay. So I identify as a Latinx woman. My family's from Nicaragua, so I'm like hardcore proud nicaragüense. And then I'm also currently like on an exploration of like, who are the native peoples of Nicaragua before, like we were colonized. So I'm like in that exploration as well.
Pam: Nice. You said you were born in the US?
Claudia: I was born in San Francisco, which is where I'm currently at. And my parents came, both my parents actually came same year in the seventies, right during the civil war when that was happening.
Pam: Nice. And you've never left San Francisco?
Claudia: I know, right. Isn't that interesting. I grew up just south of San Francisco and I've never left. And I'm actually now at a point where I'm considering, where we are considering leaving. I've wanted to leave. And I mean, to be honest, it's the whole thing. I've had a pretty codependent relationship with my mom, my whole life. And so that's made it like really hard to leave. And in recent years, like in the last decade, I've had like some healthy individualization from that. Now we're coming into a more healthy place with it. And so now I'm, I might be able to leave and like have some roots somewhere else. So we'll see. Yeah.
Pam: Let's unpack that a little bit, because I feel like it's common in all of us with Latin American roots to have that codependency with a mother.
Claudia: Yeah, for sure. I, I mean, that's my experience. I was just really attached to my mom from a really young age. She would call me her partner and would just do things with me all the time. I just felt so-- I don't even know how to explain it. Like enmeshed with her. Like her feeling was my feeling. I never wanted to let her down. I never wanted to disappoint her. If I did, it was like intolerable. Like I couldn't stand. I just had to conform to the things that she wanted me to do. And so it made it really difficult to figure out, well, who am I, what do I like? Mom, do you like this? Like I would defer to her often. And it's funny because she's a really strong and independent woman. And now I'm coming to realize like that bigness that she has really made it hard for me to show up in my authentic self. And you know, it's not necessarily her fault. I've come to realize, right? Like I'm no longer mad at her as, as I was for a long time, but it did, it did present its challenges for me, figuring out my own way, my own style, my own bigness in many ways. And how do I make space for me. So, yeah. I mean, I could say so much more, but yeah, that's where I'll start it off, I guess.
Pam: Are you an only child?
Claudia: No, I have an older brother. He's three years older than me.
Pam: Is this a case of being the youngest daughter?
Claudia: I think so. So it's interesting because I definitely don't have the experience of being the--
Pam: I'm the oldest.
Claudia: --oldest daughter where I'm like... Oh, okay. So that's so interesting. I hear a lot of older daughters. Specifically take on maternal roles in the family, take on lots of responsibility. But in my case, I was actually really babied. That's like the other side to the coin.
Pam: Right.
Claudia: I don't know what it feels like to hear that, like, if you're a child that was parentified or that was given a lot of responsibility, on the other end, I was like coddled to the point where it was like suffocating. Sorry, mom. But that's true. Right? Like I was like, I wasn't really able to do anything for myself because she would always come in and be like, let me do that. Actually, the message that I received is like, you're actually not capable of doing that on her own. I got it. Don't worry about it. I got it.
Pam: Yeah. I mean so many questions. So many things because, and this is like a fascinating experience because I often attract, like my really, really good friends are the oldest daughter or the youngest daughter. And so...
Claudia: Let me tell you, all of my friends are like, older siblings. I'm like, how did this happen?
Pam: How funny. I have one friend that I'm close to who is the youngest. However, she does serve the role of kind of like the oldest, because she, like, we relate in a lot of things because she's a caregiver. She's the one that dad always calls for help, but she's, you know, there's a lot of dynamics that get weaved into all of this. It's a very layered conversation because in my friend's case, for example, she's unwed and childless. And so of course, things fall onto her because older siblings have kids and families and whatever. And so fascinating to hear your story and knowing what you know now, how did that represent as you were growing up? The fact that mom did everything for you.
Claudia: Hmm. I would say, I mean, it definitely affected my self confidence. And there's some other layers in that, I went to, also went to an all white school. So I had some things there with self confidence where I was not really feeling like I had a very strong sense of identity, again, like always deferring to her or somebody else. Like, so whether that was her or really close friends of mine, like, hey, is this a cool thing to do? Like, is this, do I like this? Which is such a weird, like, you would think that that would be a question that I would know the answer to, but I would constantly be looking outside of myself for validation, for affirmation, for closeness. It made it difficult to navigate relationships because when there was a separation, I became extremely unsettled. It was like, my friendships were like running my life because I was constantly anxious to people please, which is, I mean, I think such a huge thing with our community. Right? Like wanting to people please, wanting to feel close to people like that was such a huge, important thing for me, especially mom, not wanting to disappoint. Yeah, but I think the biggest, one of the biggest things is like really having a really difficult time figuring out like what's for me, what do I like? And even down to some more serious things, because when we're talking about like growing older into teen and young adulthood, that really comes into like, well, what am I comfortable with? Where am I boundaries? Where's my consent? If like, I can't even track my own experience. Like, I don't know. So that was like really problematic when relationships and friendships became like different, like when in adulthood, and then also romantically that was so hard to navigate. Like, like I don't even know what I want right now.
Pam: Totally. Okay. I do wanna clarify that because we are talking about the damages that came from the way that mom erased us were not blaming mom, because I know, like, you and I have done a lot of work that allows us to talk about this in ways that it, we know that we're not saying like, she's wrong. She did the best she could with what she had. But those listeners who are like, oh, are there talking shit? We're not talking shit about mom, you know.
Claudia: No, I love her. I'm obsessed with her.
Pam: Absolutely. Like our parents are amazing. And I believe that a way to honor them is to work through the things that they inadvertently gave us, because they didn't know they were doing it, you know. Like I talked to my friends now who have kids and I'm like, you're gonna give trauma to your kids. Like it's gonna happen, you know, like don't put so much pressure on you.
Claudia: It's gonna happen, yeah. One of the things that I learned. It like revolutionized my mind. In school we talk about being a good enough therapist. And then we also talk about being the good enough parent or the good enough caretaker. Actually don't have to be perfect. Yes. You just have to get it right, like 30% of the time. And then the other 70% is about repair and attunement. Probably botching that a little bit, but that's what really stayed with me, what I took away. I'm like, oh, I actually don't have to be perfect. I can attune to where I messed up, where the needs of my child are. I can come back and repair like repairs, actually, the most important thing, I'm like, oh, okay. I have some room. I can make mistakes.
Pam: Well, and then you do a lot of work rooted in Mesoamerican knowledge. I do a lot of work rooted in liberation that is ultimately leaning a lot into the principles of mother earth, and the indigenous wisdom and like ancient knowledge, and a white supremacist principle is perfection. And so if we really break that down, the perfectionism, the people policing, the wanting to be good enough is the socialization that's been put on us, to say you have to be, look, sound a certain way. Otherwise you're not good enough.
Claudia: Exactly.
Pam: If we lean into what mother earth tells us and a lot of indigenous cultures, they lean on existing. Be a human.
Claudia: Right. Absolutely. Like connection to divine or spirit or whatever it is and the name in which you call it, will just tell us you're inherently good enough. You're born good enough. No matter what you do, I'm never gonna stop loving you. Like ever. That's it? No conditions.
Pam: And then understand that we're a work in progress. Like I listen to podcasts that I, I actually don't listen to podcasts that I recorded three years ago, but I think about 'em and I'm like, ugh. Oh, I was a whole other person. And like, let's not even talk about six years ago when I started this, like a whole other person.
Claudia: Yeah. Mm-hmm I imagine, I also relate to that a lot.
Pam: Yeah. And so I think a lot of times we stop ourselves from doing things because we don't feel "good enough" and the power is I think, in giving ourselves permission to do it wrong.
Claudia: Yeah.
Pam: Because we will learn as we go.
Claudia: You know, what's coming up for me, as you say that is, you know, my whole life I've said I'm an experiential learner. I learn by doing, I even would say that to my mom. Mom, let me make my own mistakes. I mean, I was probably like 8 or 10 when I would tell her that. So like, listen to the wisdom that I had as a little girl, let me do it my way I need to learn. And then for some, for some reason we know what the reason, right. I just conditioned to grow up and be like, I gotta do it perfectly. I can't mess up. I have to do it this way, otherwise, well then what happens.
Pam: Right. And I think to bring it back to mom, the cuddling and all this stuff, I think we also have to remember where she came from.
You know, she was protecting her little girl, like we don't know what she went through that, it was her way of saying I don't want you to go through that. Let me just do it for you.
Claudia: Absolutely. There's a lot of things that they saw, not only like in their immediate community around abuse, you know, taboo topics like sexual abuse of children or, like just fatal accidents. Like she has now over the years, both my parents have told me like, oh, such and such child died because algún descuido. And I was just thinking like, wow, how scary is that? If that's at the forefront of your mind as a parent, oh, at any moment, my child could just die. Like if, and it would be my mistake. It would be on my watch. And if that's really like informing every decision that you're making, like, of course you're super anxious. Of course you're like, no, no, no, don't climb on that. No, no, no, don't do this. Don't move that way. Don't say this. Yeah.
Pam: For sure. Not only is it the taboo topics also, it's the fact that a lot of our parents are walking cases of anxiety.
Claudia: That's right.
Pam: And it's never been treated. It's never been like discussed, you know, sometimes I see my mom and she does things and I'm like, you're just anxious. You know, like we don't talk about it, like that generation, I think our generation is the one that began those conversations, especially because therapists like first generations came in to get the degree, to study the mental health, to talk about it.
Claudia: That's right.
Pam: And then we're like breaking those. And now the next generation from us is like all about the mental health.
Claudia: That's right. Yeah. I totally see that too. I was telling my partner the other day, like I told him, no, honey, you don't understand, for my entire life I thought good parenting was anxious parenting. Like that's what I thought was just absolute truth. Like I need to be that level of anxious to be a good mom. So my mind now having these two children and now trying to like, stay in a place where my nervous system is regulated. I'm like, what is this? Like, I can actually like live my life from a grounded place? What? Completely different.
Pam: Yes. As you're sharing this, I'm thinking of my parents and my tías, because I grew up with two of my tías. And, yeah, the anxiety and the paranoia of like overprotecting and then seeing like one parent like, oh, you'll be fine. Go do whatever you want. It's not a big deal. And then another one coming in, like, no! All the things. You know, it's also a shock for the kid because then the kid's like, which one is it?
Claudia: Right. What is happening right now? And then like also I imagine that the child is like, maybe, probably meet somewhere in between. Like, and that's kind of like a hard thing to provide if you're not, like research-- like we live in a capitalistic society, right. Like we're going to work every day. Like, we have to pay our bills. We're kind of individualized. Thankfully some of us have community. Like my family had community, a big nicaragüense community when they migrated here. And like tías and tíos and stuff. My grandparents lived with us, so that made it like a little different. So I had like other attachments to reference,but they were also anxious.
So there's that. But yeah, I'm just thinking, like, to actually like sit with a child and be like, what is it that you're needing in this moment? And like, just like attune and watch and observe like the things that gentle parenting, or like a decolonized parenting approach is actually like inviting us to do. I'm like, oh my God, I'm. How could she have time for that? Like she, like did all the things that a mom does from like 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM and then did it all again the next day, Monday through Saturday. And the only day that she had off was Sunday, and then she would clean the house. So I'm like, of course she's not sitting with me and being like, Claudia, what do you need?
Pam: For sure. I mean, and the other thing is that our parents were surviving. I mean, they literally crossed borders surviving, and so there wasn't room, I would think. To be like, oh, and how are you feeling?
Claudia: Right. And then also wasn't modeled. Like no one asked them how they were feeling as a child either.
Pam: Exactly. Yes.
Claudia: Why would you ask a child about their feeling? They feel the way that you want them to feel.
Pam: Yes, yes, yes. Yes. I remember a conversation with my mom because we, my sister and I, one time we were like, you know, you never like, you know, there's parents that are like, ay mi amor y blah, blah. And my mom is not like that. And so, to me as an adult. Now I hate like, makes me throw up when other women are like, hi babe, because I never heard it. And so it's like, why are you talking to me like, I'm a little girl? Like, I'm not because my mom was very much like talking to us, like adults all the time. So, it's fascinating how, like, as you grow up, you get to see things and they like just happened in a certain way. So my sister and I were having that conversation with my mom and we were like, yeah, you, you never like hugged us like that. Like she hugs my niece and nephew like her nietos, you know,and she was like, well, you know, the way that my dad showed me love, we would sit down on Sundays on the porch and he would hand me like a nickel, like un centavo or whatever. And that was like his way that I know now that's, that was his way of telling me that he loved me. And we were like, wait, he never told you, I love you. And she was like, not that I remember. And so to your point, like they didn't get that modeled. They don't know. And we just like, you know, carry it on until those cycles get broken by the different people in different times.
Claudia: I was reflecting on what you said, and I feel so tender for your mom who gets to have that second opportunity as an abuelita, to then now have that spaciousness of like, oh, I get to try again and show, I don't know how old they are, but like, get that second opportunity of like, oh, I can hold you and hug you and play with you. That's so sweet.
Pam: And tell 'em that she loves them.
Claudia: Yeah and say, I love you.
Pam: Mm-hmm, it's cute. Like, ee look at her like, you're weird, cuz the way when she's FaceTiming them, she's like, okay, I love you. And we're like, okay,you never told us that, you know.
Claudia: It's also like weird to experience them.
Pam: Yes.
Claudia: Both ends, like they get the second chance, that's very sweet. Also, like you never did that with me.What?
Pam: It's just like I [inaudible] yeah, it's fine.
***
This summer, or whenever you actually hear this, flight attendant Mariela and retired pilot Fernando.
- Dad, you can't just appear out of nowhere after five years of silence. And tell me, mom is missing. I just need--
- A vacation?
- A drink.
We'll embark on an epic adventure to find Mariela's mom, a mysterious biologist.
- You know, I started having the same dreams as her, with that big snake thing.
- Your boys is the key, Mariela.
And save the world from a linguistic catastrophe.
- Marielita, tenemos que encontrar a tu mamá. She say that you, that you would be the key to stopping the Atacama effect. I'm sorry, but it's so cool. You're like Neo in The Matrix, pero Latina y más chingona.
Get ready to help Mariela fly straight towards mysterious islands, underwater darkness, confusing romances, and make very very tough choices.
- Fernando, give me our exact coordinates now.
- 23 degrees, 72 west.
- We're really close. If we get close to the water, we can definitely make it.
- What do you mean Lucho?
- Oh, I know what you have in mind. Qué buena idea, Luchito.
- Dad!
- Hija, sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith.
- No, don't you dare!
Inspired by the choose your own adventure classic series. This is Adventure in Atacama. An audio adventure game by Studio Ochenta. Start playing on April 25th. Wherever you listen to podcast. See you later! Uh, well, listen to you later. No, because you are the one who are going to listen to me. Um, I don't know. Anyways.
- Wake up, Mariela! Despierta!
***
Pam: Okay. Back to your story. So tell me about going to an all white school.
Claudia: Oh God! [laughs] Do we have to? No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm totally happy to talk about it.
Pam: From how old to how old?
Claudia: God forever. It feels likemy entire life. I actually don't remember preschool, but preschool was also, they sent me to private Christian school, like around the corner, but all of my older cousins went to this school. That was like five minutes from our house. It was Catholic. I take a big issue with now, cuz I'm like now knowing what Catholics did to the native folks here, I'm like, oh, so you were whitewashing me.
Pam: Yes.
Claudia: But yes. So from K through 12 girl, from K through 12.
Pam: Like half your life.
Claudia: Predominantly white. And I'm talking about 8 to 3, or sometimes 8 to 5 PM. Five days a week. So that's like how many hours? I can't even calculate, of just being around predominantly white people. I got more diversity in high school, but from K through 8, it was like the same 35 students. And my three best friends were white. That's it? Just white girls. I was like, all right, well, what does that mean about how I show up as nicaragüense, like they don't even know where that is. They're like where you're said what? You're, what, you're not Mexican? Uh, what, okay. You're Spanish? No girl.
Pam: Nicaragua.
Claudia: Yeah.
Pam: Look at a map.
Claudia: No one knew where that was, which was wild. But anyway, the whole thing being like, they just had a specific prescription as to what they felt like success was. I mean, we hear this all the time, right? Like I'm not saying anything new, but they're like, we're gonna send our kids to the best school. And the best school is where tía sent her kid. And actually my cousin who went there, first of all the cousins now, sent her kids to that school. So it's like, it's not a knock[?]. It's like a particular type of education that you're gonna be receiving. But it also, like for me, it wasn't like allowing me to be a free child or tying me in, or rooting me into any sense of my identity as a Latinx woman, as a nicaragüense person. That's it like, there's, there's just like, sit in your seat, sit at your desk and do what we say. If not, you're gonna be the problem. And I was. I like basically failed conduct every year. They're like your child doesn't sit still. She just wants to talk to everybody.I'm a therapist now, like, hello, you think that they would've like put two and two together? Like, wow, your child really likes to socialize.
Pam: We can get into the whole other conversation of like education and like neuro diverse brains and, you know, like help people learn in different ways. And--
Claudia: Right, but like, I just didn't really feel like I had a sense of belonging. Like I was like, I don't even understand what it means to be Latina. Like a black gallo pinto. That's like the extent of my experience.
Pam: Did you ever ask your parents?
Claudia: Yeah, of course. I wanted to know more. I was like, well, what was it like? So I was having some first hand experiences with my abuelitos, my abuelita and I were very, very close. But it wasn't like, I don't know. It wasn't like fulfilling that like sense of pride in where I was from. I think that's what I was really missing because they all became citizens. And they all wanted to do that. Like they all really, and I say that and acknowledging like there's policies in place around immigration that allowed for that to happen because of the way that US had interventions in Nicaragua. Right. Like other countries around Nicaragua don't have that privilege. And so I'll say like, my family was extremely privileged to be able to like have citizenship and like, they'll tell you today, like, I don't wanna go back to Nicaragua like, I don't wanna live there anymore. Which is wild to me. So my sense of like the way that they were forming my identity growing up was like very "American", I'm using air quotes. Cuz folks can't see me. Like, oh, we're from the United States. Like we live here now. This is my country. And I'm like, well, what about Nicaragua, like, I'm not learning any of the history from there. Like who, how did that make us who we are? Like, how did we even get here? Like, why are we here? So they would tell me war stories and stuff, but not necessarily like any sense of anything that would make me proud of like the history or anything like that.
Pam: Have you gone back to Nicaragua?
Claudia: Yeah. No, for sure. I've gone to Nicaragua and it's an interesting experience to go there with my parents.
Pam: Mm. How old were you when you went for the first time?
Claudia: I was 14, then I went again, 19 and 26.
Pam: Wow.
Claudia: And then I went for my, to bury my grandfather a few years ago.
Pam: Okay.
Claudia: It's interesting. I also feel like I've like, because they're very much steeped in, both my parents aspire to be like "American". Like they, they saw it in the movies. Dad always wanted to be like in the US, like mom always aspired to be in the US. Kind of like after she got here, she was like, this is where I belong. So like going back with them, it almost felt like a flex. It was weird. Like, they probably wouldn't say that, but it felt like a big flex. They were like, well--
Pam: We made it.
Claudia: like, we're gonna, yeah. Like, yes, thank you. "We made it", like, look what we have. We're gonna go eat at these restaurants and bring gifts and this stuff. And I'm like, okay, well, what about the folks? Like, I actually wanna learn something about the culture. Like, can we go to the mercado? Like, can we like, do, can we see other things like my partner and I, um, travel to Guatemala where his family's from. And we were like taking the chicken buses and we like went all around the country. And that's how we travel. We travel on the public bus.
Pam: Como la gente.
Claudia: Right. That's how you get around. And then we went to Nicaragua and my parents are like, van a tomar el bus? Yeah, what are you talking about? Like, this is how folks get around. And they're like, no, I'll just drive you. I'm like, no, you will not. Let me go. tThat's like the type of thing that, I mean, like, I feel like I don't really have a sense of like, what's actually happening out here cuz we're so like we're with one agenda.
Pam: When was that detachment from your mom? When did she like, or has she been like, okay, Claudia you're on your own now?
Claudia: Yeah, for sure. Well, we had a really tumultuous relationship after I graduated from high school, it was like 10 years of arguing, or fighting. It was really hard because she just didn't understand why I didn't wanna follow her rules. And I also was like, ooh, I feel emotionally even talking about it. I also had this push and pull of, I need you. But I need you to be like supportive in a different way. And like, I want you to protect me, but I also want you, I mean, we're talking about like quintessential, like attachment stuff, right? I'm so nerding out right now, but like, I want you to be close to me, but I also want you to give me space, like, just like a toddler. Let me explore. And I wanna make sure that you're still there. Like, are you there? Do you still love me?
Pam: Yeah.
Claudia: You love me. Okay. I'm gonna go explore. Like that's what I needed. And she just was like, you need to follow my rules. I need to protect you. Don't be like this. Like, you're so difficult. Why are you like this? And I think I, when I got really, really sick in my early twenties, I was hospitalized with an autoimmune condition. And I think she came with a full force of like her motherhood. She was like, I'm gonna protect you. I need to keep you safe. You need to stay home. You need to blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna like, keep you on this regimen with your medication. I was like, yo, like, this is not your place anymore. Like, I kind of need to do this on my own. So that's kind of like where the disentanglement started. And I think like the biggest event that I can pinpoint is when I got married, she really wanted me to be married in the church. And I told her like, that's not gonna happen. Like this is gonna be like an expression of my partnership with my husband. So you don't get to dictate like how this is gonna happen. In so many words.
Pam: Chin.
Claudia: Yeah. And I told her like, you know, I also had to apologize for the contribution. Like I was like, I'm sorry that I've actually made you believe that I'm different than who I actually am. Like, I'm actually not who you think I am. And I'm sorry that I contributed to that perception of myself. I'm gonna do this. We were married by a minister who practices Mesoamerican medicine. And she was like, wait, you're not gonna be married by a pastor or a priest.
Pam: How dare you.
Claudia: I know. Right. Like wild. But she was like, well, I'm not gonna go.
Pam: Ah, si?
Claudia: Like the biggest flex. Right? Like I'm not going and, and I'm not gonna contribute any money. I'm like fine. All right. Well, we'll figure it out. Like, okay, if that's what you wanna do, that's gonna have to be your decision. And then on top of all that, she goes, sorry, mom. She goes, you've always been a disappointment. Oh, tell me how you really feel. Well, shit. I mean, they're so like, oh, that's so just right there, like, all right. The thing that I was like, afraid that she felt about me, she just said, so just cut right to it. It's like, all right, well, I'm disappointing you.
Pam: What did you do?
Claudia: I cried. I was like, damn, that's a hell hard to hear, like this woman that I've like looked up to my whole life that I've never wanted to do anything to disappoint, that I have. In fact, disappointed. I had to just be true to myself. And so I was like, both can be true. Like both can exist simultaneously. Like I can disappoint you, love you, and still be true to myself and figure out ways to like offer and invite. Like, if you wanna try and come back from this, like, We can talk about it, but it was so hard to tolerate that like, oh, I am disappointing you. Okay. And like, to just know that that is a thing that's ongoing, like I'm not gonna have a resolution of that right now, unless I abandon myself and what I want. I'm like, okay, well we're in it now. So.
Pam: For sure.
Claudia: That, I think that was the moment that was like, all right, well, she's not my, she's, I'm not gonna be able to control her anymore. So.
Pam: Or her you.
Claudia: Well, yes, that's I was saying it as her, but...
Pam: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Claudia: Also, yes. I can't control her emotional response to me either. Cuz like I feel like that's also part of it. Me and like being the thing that it is that she wants me to be is also like our way to attempt to control our dynamic too, which is like, that's not happening either. So I'm like letting go or I was letting go in that moment.
Pam: What a powerful story, because you pointed out the different parts of the self that exist and coexist all the time, like loving her because she's your mother, understanding that she's disappointed in you and also acknowledging that you can't control what she, is feeling and at the same time being sad about it.
Claudia: Yeah.
Pam: Like all of the truths.
Claudia: To be explicit to you like, I don't just love her because she gave birth to me. Like, I don't even just love her because she's my mom. I love her because she's a fucking good mom. That's also true. Like, she's a good ass mom. Like, and I love her and like, she has her shit. Right. Like I do. And all of those things, the everything that you said is true. I'm sad. This sucks. I'm going back and forth in my mind. Like do I, should I, mm. I'm gonna stick with it. And I'm not responsible for her emotional reaction. I can be there with her and I could acknowledge that she's disappointed and that I've disappointed her and that it's disappointing. And that I may feel like I'm a disappointment. But I'm not responsible for that.
Pam: Yeah. And I think kind of like the arch of the story that I, that I see from hearing you is that ultimately -I'm gonna try to put it into words, cause this is in my head in pictures- but like the disappointment that she felt from you was because you didn't do what she wanted, yet you put yourself first, which is, I think is something that she was constantly teaching you to do, by taking care of you so much. And so it was this kinda like dichotomy of existing in the place where you were like, well, I'm doing what you taught me to do, which, which is to put myself first, I'm gonna put myself first and that disappoints you. Yet I still love you. And you will love me too.
Claudia: Yes, exactly. Well, it's so funny at the time my therapist was like, oh, that's so funny that your mom was like, put yourself first, unless it means that you're putting yourself before me.
Pam: Right. We can't generalize, but it's a common, it's a common story.
Claudia: Totally.
Pam: That we hear in, in the matriarch of the brown family. And there are lots of elements of woundedness in there, and it's true and it exists and we're here for it. We're here to talk about it.
Claudia: Yeah. There's always kind of like a flavor or a version of like landing and then re landing and landing again in yourself. Like if you're really wanting to like, do that deeper work of like, well, how do I peel back the layers of the onion -to use the metaphor that's used often- of like myself, right. Finding myself again and again and again. And that's often in like, I think, I guess the way I see it, like when I change myself, I'll speak from the eye, like my relationships change. And that change is like very disorienting and hard and kind of scary. But also again, we can come together again, hopefully. Meet ourselves there, if that's what's supposed to happen.
Pam: Oh, so good. Let's take a coffee break.
***
Pam: Claudia, do you drink coffee?
Claudia: I do. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. Every morning. First thing I do, I love a bold roast. I love a dark roast.
Pam: Yes. And Nicaragua is, is a country of coffee.
Claudia: Yeah, absolutely. They made coffee, but I didn't actually see like any of the coffee fields. I didn't, but I will say that in Amatitlán[?] in Guatemala, I did do a coffee tour and it was the dopest thing ever. It was so cool. I get to see little berries and like the, the thing where they put all the beans. It was so awesome. Love coffee, obsessed.
Pam: How fun! How do you drink your coffee every morning?
Claudia: Oh, okay. So I'm, I've recently, the reason why I made that sound is because my acupuncturist just recently was like, oh, you gotta cut out the dairy. I'm like...
Pam: The dairy?
Claudia: I know! So the way that I like it, if I was like, just having it, it would be like with half and half with like two scoops of sugar. However, the variation of that is coconut and, I think it's coconut and oat creamer from Trader Joe's. This is not a paid advertisement. Um, with [inaudible]
Pam: They should sponsor.
Claudia: Like the, they should, with the monk fruit sweetener. And it's actually, it's pretty good. Or like, if I'm getting really fancy, then I scoop the top of off the coconut, the canned coconut, full fat, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, put it in there. And it's like really creamy.
Pam: Yeah.
Claudia: I like a lot of creaminess. If you could tell.
Pam: I bet that's creamy.
Claudia: How about you? How do you take your coffee?
Pam: I am a good old black coffee. Coffee. I'm gonna start saying coffee, like I'm from New York. Yeah, I drink coffee black and I'm pretty boring. As far as like, I don't do anything fancy. When I go visit local coffee shops, I get, my usual is a latte. If I'm going to a coffee shop, I want the espresso and I'm a sipper. So if it was for me, I would just get an espresso shop with some sparkling water, like, you know, the Italians.
Claudia: Oh, so European.
Pam: Yeah, very, I, you know, I, my colonizer is coming up, and so, but I'm a sipper. And so I like having a warm cup of, Like, I, I love sitting with my coffee, like, it takes me like an hour and a half to drink my coffee. I actually got a warmer, like a cup warmer so I can...
Claudia: That's awesome.
Pam: ...sit my coffee there. And it stays warm. Like for however long I leave it there. And my partner David was like, really? When he said he was like, what is that Pam? And I'm like, it's a cup warmer. It's like the best $25 I've ever spent. What are you talking about?
Claudia: That's awesome. Especially if you're like take an hour and half to drink your coffee. And honestly, to all the mamas out there, I feel like, or to all the parent, new parents out there. I feel like they also need that. Cuz you never ever get a hot cup of coffee.
Pam: I'm gonna give it to my sister. Cuz she, when I have gone to visit her, like, you know, mom's always, you're mom, it's always like, me sirvo my cup, like she serves her cup of coffee and then algo pasa. And then she goes and comes back and like whatever. And then like three hours later, she's like, okay, now I'm gonna sit to drink my coffee and it's like ice coffee. You know.
Claudia: Yep. That's exactly how it happens to the tea.
Pam: So that's a great gift listeners. Give any parent in your life, give them a cup warmer for their cup of coffee. Believe me.
Claudia: That's such a good gift. If they're a coffee drinker or a tea drinker.
Pam: Yes, yes. I'm gonna put it in my Pam's faves list. So if you can see the one I got, cuz it's it has different temperatures too.
Claudia: Oh, that's cool.
Pam: And so I can make it like super hot or like kind of hot. I looked into the fancy cups. Like, it's like a mug that it's self warming. And so I was like, oh, when I travel, I can like bring my mug and it will stay hot forever.
Claudia: That's so funny.
Pam: And then I looked at it and it's $150, like a tumbler, you know? And I'm like, how often do you really travel? You know, like asking for--
Claudia: Oh, not in COVID.
Pam: Right. Like I literally, I haven't driven in like a week and a half, but the cup warmer though, $25. So worth it.
Claudia: All right. I like it. I feel like, I appreciate the, the compromise. The 150 tumbler, but I'll get the $25 cup warmer.
Pam: Definitely. If you have, if you don't have one and you have kids, you must, you must. Or if you work from home, it's another must. Cause especially when you get into like flow, like, you know, like when you drink your cup of coffee and you're reading the newspaper, who does that? I don't know. Apparently people do. Cause I recently got shout out to Carla, who did a coverage for me in the San Diego Union Tribune and people were messaging.
Claudia: That's so awesome.
Pam: Yeah. But, people that I knew that were like, I saw you on the paper and I'm like, oh, people read the paper. What?
Claudia: Yeah.
Pam: So I guess people still drink their coffee with their morning paper. When you don't then you do need the cup warmer. Anyway, let's go back to the show.
[laughs]
***
Pam: Oh my gosh. This has been like a great conversation. Let's go back to your story. So how did you decide to become a therapist?

Claudia: Actually, you know, I was a returning student. I was telling the story earlier. I got kicked out of university. Some folks don't know that it's like, you could not pay me to go to class. Like I was like, I did not wanna go to school. Well, obviously that's my track record. So when I went to SF state, I was like, whenever I'm just gonna work. And I worked for a bank for 10 years, then when I got sick, I was like, fuck this.

Pam: Okay, hold on. I'll break the timeline a little bit and then you clarify. You decided to go to college, went to SF state. And then you got sick.
Claudia: And then I got kicked out.
Pam: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
Claudia: Yeah. And then I worked, when I was working, I worked at a bank and then I got sick. I worked at a bank for 10 years, but in the middle of that time, I got sick.
Pam: And what made you decide to go to school? If you, the track record was that you, we didn't like to go to school.
Claudia: Right. Well, so what I told my parents, cuz they were like, ugh, this sucks. We thought you would go to college. And I'm like, I know, but I'm gonna work instead. And I told them, look, I promise that if I ever feel, in the future that there's something that I wanna do, I will do it. I started to think about like, well, what are all the things that it is that I like love? Like, I love to meet people, hear their story, support them. And then one of my friends one day was like, oh, I was also a life coach. I was coaching for, for a while. And I really enjoyed it.
Pam: Before you became a therapist?
Claudia: Before I became a therapist. Yeah.
Pam: Typically it's, it's the opposite.
Claudia: Right, it is. Yeah. So, I was coaching for several. Even from before I launched, like my coaching business, like I was doing some coaching and a friend was like, have you ever considered psychology? And it's like, no way, like I'm not a student.
Pam: School otra vez.
Claudia: No, I'm not gonna go to school, school and me just like, you know, we don't know, it's okay. That's fine. Like, I'm not gonna go back to school. Wait, should I go back to school? And when I went back to school, I was like, oh, I could, I'm actually. Like, I actually really love learning and the things that I was learning about, which I got my degree in Latino Latina studies, which I actually don't know if they changed the name now, but it's the at SF state. And so I learned all about the culture and all about the history and all about different revolutions throughout the world. And they also have like this awesome race and I was just [inaudible] before all that. But I was like, oh, I really want to learn about how mental health impacts the physical body. Cuz I was so sick and medications were not working for me. I actually like had to heal emotionally.
Pam: It was trauma.
Claudia: And some of those traumas that happened before I could actually get better. So that was like my, that. And like, I wanted to learn about my culture, which I was able to do in many ways and like get connected to that community. And also I was studying with my maestra, with mesoamerican traditional medicine, and I was like, I wonder how much of an overlap there is. Like, I wonder how much indigenous wisdom has been co-opted by Western psychology.
Pam: Oh, a ton.
Claudia: It's basically like I went to grad school, spent all this money and I was like, oh, you just taught me all the things that my folks have been doing for generations.
Pam: Yes.
Claudia: Okay. Gotcha!
Pam: Now it's just backed by science.
Claudia: Now it's just backed by science. So that's how I came to be a therapist. That's a long story, I guess.
Pam: So many questions. I love it. And I do appreciate that you mentioned how you were sick and, and it really was the emotions that needed to, that were stored in the body. And I'm an EFT practitioner. And so EFT is all about the nervous system. And when I learned, like I subscribed to the belief that who we are is not this body that we see, the body is who carries us. And the body is like this physical shell. It's the nervous system which holds onto energy. If we don't process that energy, it gets stored in all of our nervous system. And many times it results in illness, which, I need to be careful saying this because you know, I'm not curing anyone. You keep yourself.
Claudia: Ah, yeah, I hear that.
Pam: What I've learned in my, in my training with EFT is the reminder that our bodies are designed by design to self heal. Just like when we get a paper cut, like it sucks today and by tomorrow, it's fine. Unless you start picking at it, then, no. You know, it's, our body is designed to self heal. And when we stop self healing is because there are things that are preventing us from doing so, and many times it's the overactivation of the nervous system. That's just like overreactive, you know, our amygdala is like [noise].
Claudia: For sure.
Pam: And so I do appreciate you mentioning how your autoimmune, what is it? Disease, illness?
Claudia: Uh, I call it condition. I mean, I kind of just stuck with it cause I didn't really like the word disease or illness.
Pam: Oh no.
Claudia: It really felt like a sick person, but yeah, it was like, I don't know, autoimmune condition, sure.
Pam: I mean, I have so many stories of me, how, as I process things, then pains that I had in my body that no longer are pains.
Claudia: That's right. That's right. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I agree with so much of what it is that you said, and I feel like the way that I see the body and the soul and the mind, who we are as people is so aligned with what it is that you said. And how also like psychology and curanderismo both, when emotions get stuck at the body, you get sick. I mean, that's like the bottom line.
Pam: Mm-hmm.
Claudia: When you don't process your emotions, when you don't feel your emotions, when you don't acknowledge them, you get sick.
Pam: Totally. And like one of my favorite examples that one of my teachers gave when it comes to processing emotions was when dogs get, like, when I walk my dog and he meets another dog and they just like, sometimes they like each other, sometimes they don't, you know? And like I have a bigger dog, he's 55 pounds. And like, for some reason, the tiny dogs are always the ones that think that everyone is out to get 'em and they just start barking, you know? And so when that happens, the next thing that they do after they get like altered is they shake. They do like the [noise] that dogs do.
Claudia: Mm-hmm.
Pam: That's their way of shaking it off their nervous system.
Claudia: That's right. Mm-hmm.
Pam: Babies. I mean tantrums happen, you know, like kids cry because it's their way of like releasing it. When we grow as adults, we hold it. I used to internalize things so much. And like, literally, like there was a period in my life when I, I didn't cry for like years and I was sick. I was so sick, so sick. So yeah, that, when I heard the example of the dog shaking, I'm like, what's our way of shaking?
Claudia: It's a twek. [laughs] Yeah.
Pam: And feeling.
Claudia: Dance. Yeah. Feeling. Yeah. I mean so much of it tap, tapping. I love tapping.
Pam: So tell me about your work. Where do we find you?
Claudia: Yeah. Oh, okay. So, on my website at claudiaparadaenergy.com, there's a bunch of stuff like, I have my own podcast that I released for BIPOC folks.
Pam: What is it called?
Claudia: It's called Therapy For Us By Us. And it centers the experiences of BIPOC practitioners, because I don't think that we see that enough in wellness spaces. Like, so let's center our stories. So that was really the purpose behind that. So that's up on the website as well as like some other goodies that are on there. And then also on IG, uh it's @claudiaparada, I post videos and stuff and other content on there as well. And usually where I'd be hanging out. Mm-hmm.
Pam: Nice! And so you are currently doing therapy?
Claudia: That's right. I'm currently offering individual therapy for young Latinx women, first gen. And so I specifically work in that, like I work with those folks because that's where I feel like I can make the biggest impact and that's where I wanna be spending my time. So that's, we do virtual all throughout California. So that's where I'm working with that. And then I do some other stuff. Like I do BIPOC facilitate-- like BIPOC affinity space, facilitation for educators and other teams that want that type of conversation and training facilitation also like some anti-racist and diversity and inclusion training for educators and other teams as well, professional teams. So that's like some of the side work that happens.
Pam: Yay. I mean, it's all, it's all amazing work.
Claudia: Thank you. Yes. It's a lot of fun.
Pam: For sure. What's next for you?
Claudia: Ooh, what's next. Oh, okay. So I think the next thing that really is on the horizon is a course. I mean, I know. I think there's a lot of courses out there, but like, this is really like a, a labor of love that has kind of been in the works. And this course is gonna be like a hybrid. So online self-paced course, all around like healing inner wounds, being with your inner child, um, really like helping process some of those, and let go some of those like more difficult emotions and like learn how to really like, let stuff go to kind of like feel more whole, bring more of yourself forward in the world, have more of a rooted sense of yourself. So, I'm really looking forward to like getting that out. I don't know when it's gonna happen, but I'm also just like listening to my, my higher self, my spirit, like allowing myself to be guided in that. So it's been in the works for a couple of years now and I'm just like looking forward to having that come to fruition soon.
Pam: How exciting.
Claudia: Pretty excited about it.
Pam: You'll drop that on your website and everything when it's ready.
Claudia: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I I'll definitely announce it when it's ready, but that's, that's on the horizon.
Pam: Yay. I mean, I'm here for all. All inner work work is amazing and not the easiest.
Claudia: Mm-hmm I agree with you.
Pam: So worth it though. So worth it.
Claudia: I agree. Absolutely. So, so worth it. Yes.
Pam: Claudia, thank you so much for coming to Cafe con Pam.
Claudia: Thank you so much for having me, I could probably just talk to you forever. It's has been so easy, fun. It has been really nice to, to talk with you and be here with you.
Pam: Yes, absolutely. No. Yeah. I feel like this was a true cafecito. We got lost in the conversation.
Claudia: It was a real, like time with together. So I appreciate it.
Pam: Thank you. Thank you.
Claudia: Listeners, stay shining!
***
All right, listeners, what do you think? But that was the combo. I would love to hear what resonated with you from this conversation. How did you feel? Because sometimes when we bring up topics that could in a way activate your nervous system, but not so much that you are fully triggered, but you're activated. Like you feel like, ooh, a tiny pinch, a little bit of the pinch. I'll love to know what your thoughts were.
Also, this is episode 2 of our new branding and I love it. I really enjoy. I mean, I love it now because I created it,but because I feel like it truly reflects the evolution of Cafe con Pam and our growth that we have done together. When I see the new colors and I see how the photos of the guests land in the little marketing assets that we create, it just feels so good. And I'm still getting used to my picture on the artwork. I'll be real, but we'll get over that. So I wanna know. What do you think about it?
Y bueno, this is my time to ask you for your time. Aside from the time that you just gave me, I would love to get your ratings and your reviews in whichever platform you use to listen to podcasts. The most popular and the one that has the most kind of pull, I guess, is Apple Podcast. So if you are an Apple Podcast listener, according to the data, 80% of you are Apple Podcast listeners. So I see you. I don't see who you are, but I see the number. So if you feel called to leave a rating, all you have to do is go to your podcast platform and drop a rating. There are other platforms that are people are using and connecting with, and that's awesome. If you are a Spotify user they don't let you leave reviews. If you are a Google podcast, I believe they don't let you leave reviews. One thing that I realized is that we're also, the other day I was going through Audible and I found Cafe con Pam on Audible. So I think you can leave reviews on Audible. If you listen to me in Audible, I'll be curious. Let me know. If you listen to me in Audible that I'm so curious. And if you feel called to leave a review, then the next step would be to leave your thoughts. Some questions that I leave you with as a template, as a guide is to think about, what do you love about the show? What did you love about the episode? How would you describe the show to your best friend? And those are some kind of like initial thoughts that could allow your brain to start spilling words and leaving your review because reviews truly make a difference when people find the show for the first time. And since we have new branding, we kind of need like new reviews because new people are kind of discovering the show. And so I would love, love, love your time in this way.
And I'm so grateful for those of you who take the time. I wanna give a shout to Laurita because Laurita comes back time and time again, to leave reviews and edits because Apple Podcast only lets you leave one review . And so they come back every time, they love an episode and edit their, their review and kind of like update it. And so thank you so much.
Y bueno, if you are new here, welcome to Cafe con Pam. I hope you feel at home. I hope you truly connect with our stories, who we are, how we hang out in here. We are a place full of compassion, grace, love. My intention is to always lead with love and also to remind you that I'm human. So I'm not perfect because we don't embrace perfection. Nobody's perfect. And so welcome if this is your first time, I would love to stay connected. The easiest way is through social media @cafeconpampodcast on the Facebooks and the Instagrams. There's another way to connect through this online community, it's a Discord server. Now that I've been more into Web3, I'm in so many Discord servers, like so many. The reason why I started Discord is because I was in a couple of other servers and I was like, this is cool. This is a cool way to connect. And all you need to do is start a free account and then you get to access it. I know it's one more platform, but I promise you is like super fun because we have different topics of conversation. And we connect in so many different ways and I show up there every day, more so than social media. So, if you would love to stay connected with us, then head over to stayshining.club, and it will give you an invite to our Discord server and you can join it and hang out with us. I would love that.
I have a couple of ways to also stay connected with me through the Cafe con Pam Challenge, or the Five Day Tapping Challenge. As an EFT practitioner it's also important for me to share that tool with you. And so I created a Five Day Challenge that you can join at any time and tap daily for five days. So you can start your tapping practice. And if you are looking more for productivity, I have the Cafe con Pam Five Day Challenge, which gives you a lot of tools or five different tools, I guess, to be more productive. And so for that, head over to cafeconpamchallenge.com and that's where you will find all the things.
And as a business owner, outside of being your favorite podcaster, I would hope, or at least one of your top. I am also a business coach and my work is rooted in liberation practices. We do a lot of decolonizing on business. We lean a lot on the teachings of mother earth. We lean a lot on anti-capitalist practices because we want to make sure the business make profits, but they don't exploit humans, or the resources. And if you're curious, check out my work at cafeconpam.com, head over there. There is a place where you, it says "start here" head over there and you will find more about me.
And pues ya, that's it. Llegamos al final, we made it to the end and I'm so grateful and thankful that you are here. Thank you for lending me your time. I don't take it for granted. And sometimes when I'm doing these outros, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're rambling so much. Pero, I feel like this a way for me to connect more than any other way. I mean, my medium is a podcast. And so when I share my updates with you, I truly mean when I say that I appreciate you staying until the end. So thank you so much and como siempre, never forget to stay shining!