270 - Starting Over and People First Finance with Luisa Alberto

Aug 28

270 - Starting Over and People First Finance with Luisa Alberto

Listeners, we're back this week with Luisa Alberto

Luisa Alberto is the CEO of People First Finance, a Virtual CFO agency that provides high touch accounting and financial advisory services to women business owners. She has 18 years of Finance and Operations experience working alongside visionary leaders of successful Bay Area startups, such as Blue Bottle Coffee and Good Eggs. Her mission is to ease the financial burden and overwhelm that holds too many extraordinary self employed women back from reaching their fullest potential, and making a wildly successful living as the brilliant creators they were born to be.

During this episode we talked about:

06:26 - Growing up as an only child
08:03 - Leaving New York and choosing her major
09:49 - Understanding Social Justice
22:30 - There’s not a right and wrong way
24:34 - ‘What are you?’ & identity
33:30 - Getting into finance
35:30 - Getting her financial world thriving
37:54 - Filing for bankruptcy
39:49 - People First Finance & talking numbers

Hello everyone. This is Pam de Café con Pam, the bilingual podcast that features Latines and people of the global majority who break barriers, change lives, and make this world a better place. Welcome to episode 270 of Café con Pam. Today we have a conversation with Luisa Alberto.
Luisa Alberto is the CEO of People First Finance, a Virtual CFO agency that provides high touch accounting and financial advisory services to women business owners. She has 18 years of Finance and Operations experience working alongside visionary leaders of successful Bay Area startups, such as Blue Bottle Coffee and Good Eggs. Her mission is to ease the financial burden and overwhelm that holds too many extraordinary self employed women back from reaching their fullest potential, and making a wildly successful living as the brilliant creators they were born to be.
Listeners, this conversation with Luisa, ugh, it was so great. We had lots of fun. I learned a ton, so if you remember, maybe you don't, but Luisa is one of my business partners with The Fund, which is my NFT project. So she's one of the co-founders alongside with me, and I was like, you know what? Let's bring each one of you individually. We did a podcast together and so each one of them is gonna come individually and we're gonna explore their story. And so while we've had countless, numerous conversations about so many things in this interview, I learned a ton from Luisa because I mean, of course we explored all the intricacies of her story, and it was amazing. I think this is a great interview for those of you who have experienced what someone would call a failure or a big lesson to learn, uh, a big, big bump in the road. Because Luisa's story, oh my gosh, I was at the edge of my seat when I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then what happened? I really think you're going to enjoy it, especially if you are a business owner, especially if you have maybe even a passion project, something that you're looking to start, something that you've been ideating. And I think it's great to hear stories of people, even if you haven't started it, because it allows you to see that, it isn't always easy, that it isn't always going to be unicorns and rainbows. It isn't curated Instagram. There are so many things that happen behind the scenes, so many really hard decisions that could fully change her life. Luisa really walks us through a lot of those hard decisions that she's had to make and how, in her words, some of these stumbling parts are tools, not endings. Y bueno, I will stop right here and let you really listen to my conversation with Luisa Alberto.
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Pam: Luisa, welcome to Café con Pam.
Luisa: I'm so excited to be here.
Pam: I'm excited to talk to you today, and this is your second time around cuz the first time, just for context for the listeners, you came to talk about The Fund, but now you're coming as Luisa and so you've already answered this in the previous episode, but we'll go with it. What is your heritage?
Luisa: Yes, I love this question. I don't get asked it in this way enough. So the way that I describe my heritage is as where my parents come from really, because I am a mix of many different heritages. So my father is Jamaican and Panamanian, and my mother is Italian and German. And so we'll get into this I'm sure, but that makes me, you know, multiracial, multi heritage human.
Pam: Where did you grow up?
Luisa: I grew up in New York, in Nyack, New York, a small town on the Hudson. It's like 30 minutes north of Manhattan.
Pam: How was it?
Luisa: Amazing, it was like the most incredible, diverse, artistic, beautiful community ever. It actually reminds me a lot of San Francisco, so I think that's why I feel so at home in my now home. But um, yeah, Nyack, good place.
Pam: So it wasn't a city, it was in New York City.
Luisa: Right, like anytime I say New York, people automatically go to like, oh, you grew up in the city.
Pam: Yeah.
Luisa: I grew up close enough where like I had some city flavor, and I actually spent a lot of time there when I was in high school with friends. So that was awesome. But like the town that I grew up in was smaller, more quiet. Everybody knew everybody. So it was definitely like more of a small town, but close to a big city, which I love that balance of both worlds. That really worked for me.
Pam: For sure. And your parents stayed together?
Luisa: My parents stay together, yeah.
Pam: That's awesome. Those marriages still exist, or those unions still exist. That's great.
Luisa: They totally still exist. I know. It's funny. It's like nowadays, the world has changed, I guess. But yeah, I'm very fortunate that they stayed together. I'm an only child, so there's that piece too. Um, we had our little mom, dad, and kid three-way dynamic, no siblings. So friends were really important to me growing up. But yeah, always had that stability of my parents together that I'm grateful for.
Pam: Wait, so you're an only child, and you have one kid?
Luisa: Yes, and I have one daughter.
Pam: Are we gonna repeat that only child thing?
Luisa: I am pretty sure we're gonna repeat that only child thing. Yeah. It's funny, it's like I am 40 years old now. I had my daughter late in life and I'm just now coming around to realize like, oh, it kind of would've been cool to have more than one, but it just like wasn't in the cards for so many different reasons. So I think it's like everything happened as it should have happened, but now I'm like, for sure, oh yeah, that could have been like a cool experience for everybody involved. But here we are.
Pam: You know, I was an only child for six years and then I would write letters to the stork every day for years. And my mom couldn't have, it was really hard for her to conceive. And so my sister, like, it would just break my mom's heart. Every time I would write a letter to the stork and be like, can you please send me a little sister? So she went through all of this fertility stuff and my sister's an IVF baby, so we often tell her that she has two dads. And so, yeah, the only child thing, it's, it's interesting. My lived experience, my mom was a flight attendant and so I lived with my grandparents, so I'm like, my only child lived experience was like, well, I didn't really like, it was very lonely, I guess. But for you, with your, both of your parents, how was it? Were you like that kid that was always hanging out with adults? I was that kid.
Luisa: Yes. Oh my gosh. It's so funny that you just said that because that's actually wildly accurate. That's so funny. I never really thought about it like being connected to being an only child. Cause I did have a lot of friends, like I'm very social, I love people. Like, so that was always, I always had kids around in my neighborhood and was always play, like had cousins. And so I never really felt like the lonely only child. But I did in high school, developed really close awesome relationships with teachers and their families. So it's so funny that you say that cause that was actually a really big, like pivotal part of my life growing up.
Pam: And I don't know if it's every only child, but for me, and it sounds like to you, it like maybe because you don't have like other kids like at home all the time, unless you have like cousins or whatever. But I don't know, it's an interesting thing. Maybe we can explore that.
Luisa: Yeah. I mean, well it's funny because now it comes up with like how much alone time I need. Like in my head I'm like, oh, the idea of being around more people or a bigger family sounds fun. But then whenever I'm actually in that situation I'm like, oh my gosh, I need some space. I need some solo time. Like that definitely creeps up a lot as an adult. So yeah, it's It's wild. It's wild.
Pam: That's so interesting. So only child, grew up in New York. When did you leave?
Luisa: Yeah, well I had a love affair with California and San Francisco in particular since like middle school. I'd say the story, this is like kind of embarrassing and I've told this story before, but I was watching The Real World. If you are a, uh, in my generation, like The Real World was amazing and the season that I watched when I was in middle school was when they were in San Francisco, and it was the first time that I got a glimpse into what 20 somethings do after college. Cause I was like, okay, like you go to high school, you graduate, you go to college. I did all these things. And then I was like, but what happens before you like get married and have babies? You know, this is my like 12 year old mind.
Pam: Right.
Luisa: And that show and that season, if you know it, you know, it was amazing. Like mind blowing, like the people and the things they did and they were like rebellious. It was. Very cool. And I just fell in love with San Francisco and California, so I've always had this like desire for some novelty and new things and new places. Um, but it really started early, but I was a little too afraid to go that far for college. And so I really stuck to a little bit like higher comfort level with being a little bit closer and going closer to where my high school friends went to school. And so I ended up in Boston for college. I just felt like that was the college town. I should just like go to Boston. So I went to Boston College and um, that was like my first sort of departure from New York and it was awesome, but I was like, I need palm trees. So we're going to California next.
Pam: What did you go to school for?
Luisa: I majored in Philosophy and then I minored in Latin American Studies and Faith, Peace and Justice.
Pam: What made you choose that?
Luisa: So going to college, it was my first time where I had the chance to leave the country, and Boston College is a Jesuit college. And so they were all about doing trips, like service trips. And so one of the first trips I went on out of the country was to Mexico. We went to, um, Cuernavaca. And it was the first time where I saw a different city, a different way of life, learned about, you know, the trials and tribulations of people there. And I was like, what is all this crap? Like, that's so unfair. Just everything I kept hearing was like, but that's not fair, but that's not right. But that doesn't make sense. And so it launched me into this world of social justice really, which is how my career started. But philosophy, I've always been very inquisitive and curious and had sort of big feelings and big thoughts and getting to college and reading, you know, ruminations from other other thinkers, I felt very much at home. And so it was very easy for me to study philosophy because at BC they also had philosophy paired with core like subjects that you had to take. So like it was interdisciplinary. So if I was taking philosophy and needed philosophy credits, then I could take math but with a, like a philosophical lens on math for example. And so it was just an easier way.
Pam: What?
Luisa: Yeah, for me to grasp these other areas that were a little bit harder for me maybe or more challenging like science and that sort of thing. But I was able to approach it through philosophy and so that's how that happened.
Pam: That's fascinating. First of all, cuz I remember I went to high school in Mexico City and it's a lot. Basically my last year of high school was like a freshman year of college. As far as like the curriculum, I took an ethics class, so philosophy and ethics and that was fascinating. I never thought about like making it a major because I'm like, what am I, like what does a philosopher do? Right?
Luisa: Right? Totally. You are not the first person to ask that question. What do you, what do you do with a major in philosophy?
Pam: We'll talk about that. And I love that adding a philosophical lens to all the other subjects is brilliant.
Luisa: Right?
Pam: So what did you plan on doing with those degrees?
Luisa: So I am very much a like, feel the way, not get ahead of myself. Like my parents didn't have any expectations on me. Like, you need to make a lot of money, or you need to be this, or you need to do that. They never ha-- you know, really pressured me. They just wanted me to be happy and do good things and feel successful. And were really proud. I'm the first person in my immediate family to go to college.
Pam: Nice.
Luisa: So I think they were just proud of that. And it was this like wonderful university and I got scholarships and it was the whole, you know, college experience. And so I didn't really have a plan. I was just sort of like, I love this subject, I love these conversations and this is how I've always been like, I love this conversation. What more can I do with it? Or let me follow this thread kind of feeling. And so it just naturally, very naturally led me down. That's sort of like a, you know, how my whole life has been. And so it's just been sort of pulling this thread and that was the beginning of, of that thread.
Pam: So there wasn't a path of like, okay, I'm gonna be a professor. Or like, it was just like, let's be in the present and go with it in this moment.
Luisa: Pretty much.
Pam: Nice! I love that. I'm curious about your thoughts on this because I also grew up with parents that didn't demand like good grades or anything. My dad was the philosophy of like, as long as it makes you happy, make it happen. Because he grew up with a dad who demanded a degree from him. My grandfather was an attorney and the rule was every single one of his kids has to have at least a bachelor's at least, because education and wisdom and you know, whatever. And so my dad is a mu-- he's like, you know, a brujo, a musician, like he's all in the like right brain, which is so interesting. He has an engineering degree. And so what he did was once he became an engineer, I think he has a master's in it, he handed over his degree to his dad and was like, now I'm gonna do what I love. And so I gave that context because when he raised me, he was like, do what you love. I really don't care if it's, you know, whatever it is. I always felt that I wasn't pushing myself enough because I didn't have that pressure. And I would see like my peers who would like, oh my gosh, get so stressed about tests and grades and all the things, and I'm like, why? Who cares? You know. So like, one part of me was like, so free and like, you know, whatever. And then another part of me was like, am I not doing enough? Did that ever happen to you?
Luisa: No. I mean, what's interesting about this is like, I've always been an insanely ambitious person. Not in like a competitive way, not in like a, I need to be better or I, like, there's no standard, I don't think it's just, I've always pushed for more, for myself to feel more challenged, to have more fun, to have greater connections with people. Like I just, it's just how and who I am, I think. And so this way of moving through life just really works for me. And so anytime I like stayed close to that was a time that I was happy. And so I think in following that, it's like if there were times where I sort of steered off that path, just that contrast of how unhappy I was, or where I felt sort of uncomfortable or like something was off, was enough to sort of pull me back in alignment with like what I should actually be doing, how I should actually be spending my time. And it, I just sort of like felt my way through it. Now that I'm saying it out loud, I'm like, that sounds kind of strange, but like that's just sort of how things have gone.
Pam: Well, I think it's really powerful and I think it's not talked about enough in that way because we live in a very logical world that measures and you know, what's the RI? You know, what's the like KPI for that? Well, I'm also like doing business stuff all the time, but we do, and like even with grades, like it's all about quantifying things, but really this way of living that you talk about of does it feel right. And if it doesn't, like there's really no measuring that you can say other than like, my body's telling me it's not. And I don't think we talk about that because it's like, how could we measure it? And it makes me think of, I've shared this before, when I would be pulled into meetings to literally feel people, so the team would interview people and then they would bring me in to observe the interview. And then at the end they would ask me like, what do you think? And I'd be like, well, I feel that they'll be a great team member. And there's no measuring, right? Because it's, it's my intuition. And there's no way to measure intuition. And also I would argue that there's no way to question intuition either.
Luisa: Right.
Pam: Because there's no measurement. And so there are people still working at that company that I said yes to.
Luisa: I love that so much and I resonate with that so much. And a lot of it is like feeling out because like you say, I love that you brought up that example because even in my life, like there are a string of people who I have connected in different ways to different jobs, to different other people. Like it just comes very naturally to go, you know, I really feel like this would be the thing. Or really, and it's the same thing where there's this longevity that for them in that role or with that friendship or in that place, because a lot of it is just like, is this energy aligned? Like, would do these things feel like they're complimentary and it's funny because as we're talking about this, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be like such a wild conversation to be like, how did you turn that into finance? Like it, like no roads that we have talked to we're getting there lead to what I do in any way, shape, or form. So it's just like, it's just funny.
Pam: We're not there yet, but I will like to point out that finance is such a measuring, like from a foundation standpoint, it's nothing but measuring. I mean numbers.
Luisa: Yeah.
Pam: So we'll get there. We'll--
Luisa: Yeah, we'll get there. Sorry, I'm just like, in my head I'm like, this is like so wild that this is, but it's really cool to talk about where we come from in this way because it's such a beautiful reminder of how whatever you're doing is really driven by these early ways that you are thinking and feeling that we're just so pure. Like we're just so younger, like earlier in our lives there's just this like purity and curiosity and like it's so fun to revisit that, you know?
Pam: Yes, totally.
***
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Pam: Like, one of the things that I tell my clients all the time, specially because I work with a lot of people from the global majority, is to remember your lived experience. Because we oftentimes look at like, do I have the experience to do what it is I'm declaring that I'm doing? And from, you know, like maybe on paper we could say like, no, you don't. And your lived experience informs a lot of the things that make you qualified to do it.
Luisa: Absolutely.
Pam: And so like you exploring math from the lens of philosophy, like of course that informed the way that you look at numbers now. You know, people could argue, and because we live in such a white supremacist society who measures a lot of the things in different ways, like somebody could argue like, well, do you have [inaudible] that you know, helps you back that up. However, bringing in this lived experience, it gives you that authority to say, I have explored it in this way. Therefore, yes, I'm qualified to do it.
Luisa: Well, and it's so interesting too because in thinking about philosophy and in thinking about business, like that's the world that we both work in, and it's like, I think a lot of people are held back by the thinking that there's a right and a wrong way to do business. And so coming from like where you were really encouraged to follow your happiness, like what made you happy and I was encouraged to do the same as we sort of took these paths. It's like there really truly is not a right and a wrong way. Like yes, you can use benchmarks and metrics and that sort of thing and they're indicators and they're useful at times. But a lot of what I spend my time talking about and learning about and owning is the fact that there isn't a right way. Like I can't give you the formula to run a successful business. There's no formula that exists.
Pam: Yes.
Luisa: That you can follow to a t that will give you the exact measured outcome that you may be seeking. And so I think the sooner we like own that, the easier it is for us to take hold of our own destinies, our own, you know, businesses, our own autonomy and have fun with it.
Pam: Totally have fun with it. I mean, a lot of times what I'm thinking as you're saying this is it's kind of like how identity is, you know, like your identity is very different from mine. Your way of existing in the world is very different from mine. And so your business, the identity of your business is very different from mine because we have to use what we have. And so 100%, like there isn't a right or wrong formula, I'm a business coach focused on marketing. You know, there's like different types of business coaches. There's business coaches that are like focused on revenue and numbers. There's business coaches that are like, they coach on sales. I'm a marketer at heart. And so I always bring it back to like, how are you really honing into the identity of your business? Because that's how it informs others and how they're attracted to you. And when I talk about it in marketing, somebody like challenged me one time, another business coach, and he was like, well, I mean, when you talk about marketing, like yeah, you're giving me strategy, but you're not giving anyone tactics. Like where are the silver, what do you call it, the silver bullets?
Luisa: Yep.
Pam: You know, like the things that like literally gonna make things. And I'm like, how? Do you want me to give such a blank-- like there is no way. It's just like when people say, well what's the average open rate for emails? Yeah, the industry is like 0.3%, but what industries are we putting in there? You know? And so, 100%. So Luisa, I'm curious, we're gonna backtrack a little, I guess, but do people ever tell you like, what are you? That's like such an annoying question to me.
Luisa: Oh my gosh. But yes, and it's run the gamut. Like Puerto Rican, Jamaican, Brazilian, and these are all identities that I don't, like, they're beautiful, wonderful places and people and cultures and things, but like, I don't identify with them at all. And it's just so funny. And it's funny too, because when I first started dating my partner, Matthew, I asked him to guess, sometimes I ask people to guess.
Pam: That's a fun game to play.
Luisa: It's a fun game to play. Right? Cause they're like, I have no idea. But he's the one who guessed closest to all four of my, you know, backgrounds.
Pam: Wow.
Luisa: Yeah. So I was like, okay, I think, I think [inaudible] here, you're a keeper. [laughs] Because if you see me, I know we can't see on the, you know, on the podcast, but like, if you see a picture of me, it's, it is, it's very difficult to tell. And now my daughter even who's got, her father is Mexican and Spanish. And so it's like, now how is she going to, you know, it's just like, goes on and on. It's fascinating to me. Uh, but yeah, people ask me that a lot.
Pam: So fascinating. And in Café con Pam we talk a lot about identity and, especially in the US, how your identity shapes how you shop in the world, how you present yourself, how you navigate different places and spaces. What are your thoughts on identity and have you ever felt, because you're so different in a way, and like unconventional, I guess, has that been a superpower or the opposite?
Luisa: I love this question and I'm actually so grateful that we've had previous conversations about this together in the other project that we're working in, in The Fund, because I think it all just sort of crystallized for me when I decided that like really what drives me is this identity of being like a, like first generation identity. And because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I love like pushing the boundaries. I love thinking about different ways of doing things better. I feel very much at the forefront of whatever comes next in the world. And that's just my place. I like being on the front of the ship, like where are we going? Like I'm on the front, you know, like scoping it out, charting the waters. And that really speaks to this identity of first generation where I don't think there was one other person in my high school growing up who shared the same background heritage that I have. And I was friends, my, I've always been friends with a very diverse set of individuals. Growing up, my best friends were Black, Indian, White, Asian, like it's just, it's wild to think about it. And I always felt very at home in that kind of scenario because I'm just another one in the mix. And so it's really interesting because that's been the most super power centric way to think about my identity I think growing up and also now as an entrepreneur, it just all aligns beautifully, I feel.
Pam: Yes, I agree. Okay, let's take a quick coffee break.
***
Pam: Luisa, do you drink coffee?
Luisa: I love coffee. I actually have a background working in coffee for many years.
Pam: What did you do?
Luisa: So I worked with a little company that some of you may know, it's called Blue Bottle Coffee. I started working with them in their very early stages back in 2000, I wanna say 4. And worked with them. I was slinging coffee at the farmer's market and then I worked with them as their wholesale account manager. So I worked with different restaurants and cafes in the Bay Area who were serving Blue Bottle Coffee to make sure that the quality standard was really high, that their teams were trained in how they were serving the coffee, cuz it's a very particular quality driven, um, coffee experience. And so I did that for many years. So I have tried a lot of different coffee. I've learned about supply chains. I worked in fair Trade before then, so I visited coffee farms in Costa Rica and went to coffee convention. So coffee was a big part of my life for I'd say like about a decade actually.
Pam: That's awesome. We could have like a whole episode on coffee.
Luisa: Totally. I love, oh, well actually, I'll tell you this. This is a good anecdote. So when I was at Boston College, I worked at a coffee shop and back then coffee was like a dollar. I remember it was a $1 and 26 cents for like a 12 ounce coffee. I remember because now it's like, I don't know, $5 or something insane in, in San Francisco. But, so I was working at a cafe and I remember we got these bags of Fair Trade coffee and I was like, fair trade. What is Fair Trade? And so Fair Trade is a certification agency that ensures that workers are being, you know, compensated fairly for their work and pricing and supply chain and all of that. And so that was what actually sparked my interest in working in a Fair Trade, which is what led me to apply to an internship working at Transfer USA in Oakland, which is what actually moved me out to California, the Bay Area in 2003.
Pam: That's how the jump to California happened.
Luisa: That's how it happened. All because of coffee. Ah, coffee. I love coffee.
Pam: All because of coffee.
Luisa: Yep.
Pam: How do you drink your coffee now?
Luisa: Now I drink my coffee. I was doing pour over for many years, Blue Bottle habits, and now I drink my coffee with, uh, steamed oat milk is my favourite.
Pam: You know, I did forever for years too, but then I be, I just frankly became like lazy. And it's one of those like, if you know how to do a pour-over, like when you don't do it well, it's like, might as well just get dripped.
Luisa: So true.
Pam: When I noticed, you know, I was like, listen, I'm not measuring or like, I'm just kinda like calculating it, you know? There's no temperature, there's no warming up of the-- no. So it was like, you know what? We're done with, like, I enjoy and love pour overs when I pay for someone to get 'em done. Or like on the weekends, you know, when I want to like actually do more of a ritual where I like grind my coffee and, ugh. Otherwise like one pour over, like a 12 ounce pour over it is like 25 minutes to make it well.
Luisa: Totally. It's so much work. It's true.
Pam: So much work. Worth it. 100% worth it. And when I'm like showering and getting ready for like, I wanna just push a button, have it ready and then grab it. Sit on my desk.
Luisa: Yep. That's what we do. That's what we do now.
Pam: Right. We'll leave the pour overs to the baristas. Do you have a coffee shop in San Francisco that you wanna give a shout out to?
Luisa: Yes, I wanna give a shout out to Four Barrel Coffee. I was just there this morning in their beautiful cafe doing my focus CEO work. And everybody there is warm and inviting and lovely.
Pam: Amazing, I'm drinking black coffee, good all black coffee. I don't do anything. The only time when I get lattes now is when I, or you know, when I add anything to my coffee is when I go to places. Because that's when I'm like, well, if you don't, and also once you've had a good pour over, if I go to a place where they don't specialize in pour over, I'm like, why? Why do it?
Luisa: Right.
Pam: You never know. You never know. And this is like a coffee snob kind conversation [laughs] but like, it's like the coffee people will understand.
Luisa: Oh yes. The coffee people get it. And it's so funny how like how coffee culture has evolved because like going from Starbucks and then there was, what do they call like the Third Wave and that was when pour over and really Blue Bottle Coffee was at the forefront of when sort of tastes were shifting to more of this like delicate way of making coffee, which was really interesting to see. But you know, it is also a lot about the experience of drinking coffee, right? And how it does really connect cultures and conversation and people. And I mean it's, I was in the industry for a really long time because I totally got the power of it and the story of it as a commodity in this world. It's just like wildly fascinating.
Pam: For sure. And it's a global movement. Coffee is a global movement because it, it starts, you know, in different parts of the world and then it ends in San Francisco. Or in San Diego, or, it's fascinating.
Luisa: Well, and the fact that it's part of, I venture to say most people's every day similar to money, right? Like, money is a part of our every single day, whether we're spending it or not. Like we're always thinking about it. We're always needing to like be a steward of it. We're-- right. And with coffee it's the same thing. It's a part of your every day. I've always worked, I think this is the philosophy part in industries that like we're so pivotal in your every day that they required like careful attention.
Pam: I love this. And I'm thinking as you do the-- simile with money, I'm like, coffee is the currency of energy. All right. Let's end the coffee break and then let's continue with your story.
***
Pam: So, how did you get into finance? What was this moment? What happened?
Luisa: Okay. I was working in these industries. I was working in coffee. I got a little bit bored of the fact that everybody wanted, you know, Blue Bottle Coffee. And it just became, it wasn't exciting anymore. It wasn't new, it wasn't fresh. And so my coworker at the time, while I was working with that Blue Bottle to help trade these accounts, and I decided to start a juice bar because we really wanted to highlight like Northern California produce is just so incredible. California produce is just so incredible. And so we really wanted to highlight, sort of use what we had learned in coffee and apply it to juice. So high quality garnished glasses made to order using things like buddhist hand citron and persimmon, and things that you don't typically see in, in juices. And, and our dream was to be at the ferry building in San Francisco. If you've been there, if you're familiar with it, you know, it's really like foodie Mecca, is what I call, it's where all of the brands who are well known for quality ingredients and quality product really show up. So we ended up at the farmer's market there, we did pop-ups for a while. We ended up at the farmer's market. Then we had a stand and it was a new build out. Anyway, it was my first time owning and operating a business. I had a business partner. Long story short, everything went sour for many reasons. I had my daughter at the time. That was a little unexpected. That shifted, you know, my ability to be present in the business in the way that I had been. The world was shifting. I think it was like post recession, but, um, all the tech companies were bringing food in, like it was just like a wild time. And so the company didn't do as well as we had hoped it would do, and we had to close it down. And through that process I declared bankruptcy. The real impetus was that I was about to lose my house. So I rent an apartment in San Francisco, this is all around the same time, right? I'm running this business, it's not going well. I live in this apartment I've lived in for a really long time. I'm pregnant. And my landlords were like, yeah, so we're gonna move into your unit. You're gonna need to leave. And this idea of being displaced and not having a home, and we know how the rental market is in San Francisco, was terrifying to me. That combined with being pregnant and having this failing business was really a wake up call that I needed to get my financial world, not only in order, but like thriving so that none of these external forces and circumstances could rock my boat. And so I took a lot of time educating myself up years, educating myself on personal finance and investing, reading books, um, taking courses, taking classes, taking jobs to practice bookkeeping and accounting skills for years. And then finally got to the point where I had navigated through this business closure, had a little bit more business experience and finance experience under my belt. And I was like, you know, I really want to help other people avoid the like, horrible feelings and decisions and crap that I just went through as a mother navigating this world of business and a woman like navigating this world of business. I was like, I think I need to help others. And so I started just sort of very naturally helping local businesses, people I knew people, I had connections with, manage their finances.
Pam: Did you have to move? Did you end up moving?
Luisa: Good question. No. I lived with a roommate at the time, again, while I was pregnant, and I ended up holding on for dear life and fighting for my house, like fighting for my home. And it just worked out that she moved, I took over the apartment and their plans fell through. So the universe like totally took note of everything that I was doing.
Pam: The effort.
Luisa: Yeah, to just get myself and my daughter on solid ground.
Pam: Wow. Wait, so were you a single mom?
Luisa: So I was in a relationship. So my daughter's father and I were in a relationship up until she was maybe one and we lived together in the apartment that I'm talking about. We separated when she was one and a half. So like you can imagine that first if we separated when she was one and a half that first year as parents, like it was not all roses and happiness. Um, and so it was really tumultuous because the rockiness of our relationship was coinciding with all of these other factors as well. So yeah.
Pam: For sure. Oh my gosh. You end up filing for bankruptcy. How was it for you? Like when you're in it, so now you're out of it and you're like, bankruptcy's a tool and not the end of the world. At the time though, did you believe it?
Luisa: Yes, so we thought of every possible way to get out of the situation we were in, and my business partner and I were not on the best of terms, and so the only way to completely extricate myself from my business partner and the business and have my autonomy was to draw a line in the sand and declare bankruptcy. The other option was to take all of my future earnings and pay for all of this calamity in the-- and I was just like, there is no way that one more dollar that I make today is going to go back to the mess, and the learnings that I gained. And really in thinking about it, we had advisors, we had, you know, cuz we had SBA loan, like we had advisors and as a small business with heart, you know, these decisions are emotionally taxing. But businesses declare bankruptcy every freaking day. Like it's a tool, and the wealthy and, you know, experienced business owners understand that doing that and using that as a tool actually preserves your wealth over time and the success of your business. So to me, it was like, it was a little bit hard at first because of the emotional side. Like we had put so much into this business, I felt bad. I really loved our lenders. I loved the people who had been advising us and help, I felt like I was letting people down. There's all of that, right? And then there's my future and I was like, I choose my future.
Pam: Okay. And so you stay in the apartment, bankruptcy happens. You are out of the business. You start getting these jobs cause you're like, okay, new shift is how do I get 100% into like my finances in check. You learn all the things. So you start helping people. And then when does People First Finance solidifies?
Luisa: So like many business owners, I started with one-to-one services, one-to-one coaching and consulting. Did that for a while. Thought, okay, this isn't sustainable. I'm always in, how do I scale this? Like how does this work forever kind of mode mentality. And so I saw the limits of one-to-one, you know, consulting and, and coaching. But I was like, that's what I've got now, I'm gonna do it. Did that, built that up. Then I launched a membership, so went to one to many, which is a really natural next step for a lot of, you know, coaches and business owners that get capped. Did the membership thing like full force, like totally in in it for six months, decided that wasn't the right thing. And then I pivoted to the agency model for done for you services because my real strengths are in strategy, team building, you know, being a visionary, sort of a futurist thinker. And I really needed a way to leverage those strengths and have a real impact for the people who I wanted to serve. And I felt like the world of finance is so complex, that if we can make that part simple for our clients so that they can really soar and be in their zone of genius to like grow their businesses and deliver their products the way that I like, have identified and want to feel like that would just be such a beautiful, like, win-win and sort of coming full circle in business. So we launched the agency, this, all, this all happened on like less than two year timeline. Um, I moved fast, so the agency launched in September.
Pam: She was determined.
Luisa: Very determined, very ambitious like, but the, the agency people first finance launched in September of 2021, and so it's been less than a year, but I've got a team of seven people. Like we're making it happen. That's the abbreviated version.
Pam: For sure. And you know, I have questions. So if you're open, are you on track or have you made a million dollars?
Luisa: I have not made a million dollars yet we are on track, I think, and I'm very transparent about numbers. For my business, for myself, like so any like this, like I tell people all the time, like when you're around me, ask the stupidest question. Ask like the most detailed question you can about finance because I am wildly transparent about it. I think that's really important. Our last 12 months we have generated $220,000 in revenue. So we are on track. I mean that's not obviously, but that's our goal. Our first biggest milestone is that million dollar mark, which would mean for us around 80 k month, months, of that recurring revenue. So we're about a quarter of the way there.
Pam: Yay! All right. Let's talk numbers because people don't like talking about numbers and I think you're the second one actually out of 270-ish episodes, that is like fully like, yeah, let's talk about my revenue numbers. Everyone is like, I bootstrapped and we're on our way. So thank you for being open. So how does one take a business from zero to 200 in a year.
Luisa: You have to hire, it's a lot of sticking your neck out and knowing that the net will appear. Like not just believing it, but like knowing assuredly that the clients will come, that the right people will fall into the right roles. Like I am so sure of that because going back to our earlier conversation, it all feels right, nothing feels hard. And so I think, you know, the short answer, like I say, is hiring, taking big risks, making investments before you're ready. And I know that a lot of coaches say that that's sort of like jargon at this point to some extent. But if you have a big vision, like you really do need to be taking action now even though you're not there yet, as if you were already there. And so a lot of hiring, a lot of hiring, people to do the actual client work because I am not an accountant and a lot of people on the ops side to make sure that our systems work to support the clients that we have and want to take on.
Pam: I love that you said hiring because we're often so hesitant because there's this fear of like, well, how am I gonna bring money back into the business if I'm paying it to someone? And to your point, it's the way because they'll help you make more money.
Luisa: Yep. And this is something that comes up for our clients a lot. It's like, I call it the chicken or the egg, right? And and they've even said that. It's like, okay, I need a sales manager cuz we need more sales, but I don't have the funds to hire the sales manager. It's like, cool, lead on your entrepreneurial creativity to come up with a profit sharing plan or a commission plan. You can slice it and then they're like, well, how do you do that? It's like, think about it, like there are no rules. Make an offer to somebody that's gonna make sense for them and be incentive for them. It also works for your business. I have one employee and I have multiple contractors that I are on track to move into employee roles. What I've done is I get them really excited about our mission, and I get them really excited about understanding how categorizing transactions in QuickBooks is actually helping to change someone's life. If as a leader you can connect those dots for your team, you will have loyal people show up in your business every day who do way more than you could ever clearly articulate or ask for them to do.
Pam: Yes, I love this 100%. Having a very clear vision of where you wanna take your business is key. And bringing people in with the vision is a different thing. Cause I used to work with in a company that had a vision, but the vision was only the owner's vision and there wasn't a profit sharing. Like it was like, help me make the money and then I'm gonna go on a trip to Italy and like, y'all stay with your underpaying jobs. And that's a way to not bring the team in because then we start resenting like, we're helping you build something for you, not for all of us.
Luisa: As business leaders, as women, we can decide to build our businesses however we want. I just sent a, I do a weekly CFO brief and I just sent an email, I think it was last week or the week before, that was like nobody on my team that that specified sort of like I'm hiring these people, but like I'm doing this with a very clear agenda that nobody will work more than 30 hours a week on my team and be, and that will qualify as full-time. Because I don't think any human should spend more than 30 hours of their weekly lives working on somebody else's anything. I think they still need, we all still need time to enjoy our lives, to pursue our own projects and hobbies, to go to have coffee with somebody. So that's one. Nobody works more than 30 full-time hours. And mind you, that's our goal. Is it happening right now? Not always. And my team knows that that's our goal. And so if they choose to work more, that's their choice. They have that choice. If they need to get something done, we work it out. Why are we not achieving that goal? That's the conversation we have, great, let's troubleshoot those things so that we can achieve that goal. That's just one example. We cross train so that people can take mental health days. If they need to. You wake up, you're like, I got cramps today, or I have a migraine. So many people in my circle, it's like migraines are a thing. You cannot work when you have a migraine. You have to stop everything. So if I can create an environment where that's okay. And you can stop and someone else will take over and the client work isn't disturbed, like that is a beautiful goal. That's how I think about my team. That's how I communicate to my team and that's why I have a, a line of people who are ready to work with us. Because that's a very different way of thinking about things. But we make the rules.
Pam: Yes, we make the rules. Okay. So the three things have a vision, make the rules, hire.
Luisa: Have a vision, hire-- and I was saying like to take big risks. I don't know if that's different than--
Pam: Make the rules with risks because yes, I think we've been told for so many years that this is one way of doing business when it, you know, there's, people used to trade things all the time in whichever way worked for them. So I am with you. You make the rules to whatever works for you.
Luisa: One of my favorite books that everybody should read, I think it's called The Art of Possibility. And even if you just read the preface, like if you just read that initial opening chapter, it's all about how everything is made up. Like all of these constructs, it's all made up. And the second you truly realize that it's just so freeing. And especially in business where it's like we do think that there are these rules to success and we do seek advice and mentorship maybe more than we need to. And we do scroll on social media and end up copying people, even if we're just doing it subconsciously. And it's like goes back again to the conversation you and I are having around like identity. And how critical it is to stay close to your identity because while you and I Pam share a lot of the same values, ambitions, interests, right? Like we have so much in common, but our daily lives and our daily work look so different. And I think that that's so incredible. Like I love that. I love, love, love that we need more of that.
Pam: And that also offers a lot more room to collaborate. Because, I remember I had a conversation with the coach and I was like, well, why couldn't we do things? And she was like, no, because we share the same audience. And I'm like, precisely. That's why we should collaborate. But there was this element of like, Ooh, I dunno, I don't want you to take my clients to your point of like really understanding the differences and the similarities, then we can come into like true collaboration because I know what I'm good at and you know what you're good at. Even if we share the same people.
Luisa: Yep. And it's interesting because I'm made a collective of other CFOs, like CEOs that are running CFO agencies and we share that same belief that there are so many people to support, to help who need the services that we provide. We can only take on, what, ike one of us has a goal for like 80 to a hundred clients. Another has a goal for maybe another a hundred. Like if each of us can only take out a hundred clients and there's four of us, that's 400 clients that we're serving. Do you know how many people like, in addition, need the services that we provide? Like there's no way we can meet all of the demand for what we do, and that's how we operate. And so we're constantly sharing. How we're working, how we're building our teams, what we're focusing on, like what worked, what didn't, how our pricing, all of it. Because we believe that we all are tackling a similar challenge for business owners, but we're doing it in our own very distinctive ways, and it's the most beautiful type of collaboration, to your point.
Pam: It's super fun. Tell us where we can find you and all your links and places and spaces.
Luisa: Yes, so you can find me on Instagram mostly, um, @PeopleFirstFinance is the handle. I'm gonna be moving to LinkedIn very soon too, to just bring a little pizzazz to that world of professional connection and development. And that's at People First Finance as well. And then I also have, um, there's a link in my bio. I do a weekly CFO brief that's really meant for CEOs to help have thought-provoking questions and considerations and strategy and tips for growing businesses because it is a tall task. We often do it in isolation, you know, in our own heads. And so that's one way to get out of your own head and, and really think through decisions that you need to make in your business. So, um, I'm in there every week and the link is in my bio on Instagram.
Pam: I wanna subscribe. I'm, I, I wanna hear it and read it, all the things, cuz you're coming in from the philosophical lens, right?
Luisa: Exactly.
Pam: So exciting. Okay. And so what are your offers right now? What is it something that you're selling currently? And how much?
Luisa: We're selling advisory services, and that's advisory only. So we offer done-for-you services for agency owners and service providers. So we're a fully outsourced accounting solution. We do all the bookkeeping, accounting, tax, advisory, all of it. And so we're really meant to fill that complete function for CEOs that have too much of that on their plate and don't have the team to really handle all of those various functions. So we're currently refining our ops so that we can support additional clients. So we're gonna open up a wait list and take on new clients in 2023. But in the meantime, we're also offering advisory services. So if you are a business owner that needs help making more strategic decisions in your business that are data driven, understanding your finances, we have that as an offer as well. And we're having it in beta mode right now because we're making sure that the format works. So it's a steal actually, if you're interested. It's a 12 month engagement for $6,500. And that is as of August 18th, that price will not remain for much longer. But, um, you get us, you get our team in your numbers, crunching your numbers, analyzing your numbers, and really helping you make decisions that move the needle in your business.
Pam: So that's like $542 a month.
Luisa: Yep.
Pam: And on average, just for comparison, for the people that are like, whoa, 6,000 is a steal. So you have a bookkeeper, you have an accountant, so two different people, bookkeeping and accountant is not the same. And then you have a finance coach, someone who can look at your strategy. So all of that, if you add it up, is at least 500 each person. So that's why it's a steal.
Luisa: And that, that's why it's a steal. And even for a done-for-you services, it's like you're hiring a team. Like you have to have these people performing these functions, and you have to manage them and make sure that their work is clean, is accurate. And oftentimes clients find out when they're doing their taxes that something was off. It's like, it's just a lot to manage and oversee. And so instead of needing like a controller, an accountant, a bookkeeper, a tax filer, uh, like the, the advisory piece, like that's five different roles. Not to mention the back office accounting that we also do, which is like paying bills, reconciling invoices, like all of it. It's a lot.
Pam: Oh my gosh.
Luisa: And so our goal is to really take that payroll, like it goes on and on, right? Like all of the different, if you think about it, finance functions in a growing business, and they all need to be handled very precisely and accurately and timely, and especially if you're a business in California with the way the tax code changes and it's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. And so our goal is to take all of that off your plate so that you can focus on generating revenue and--
Pam: Why haven't we talked about what you do? I wanna hire you right now. [laughs] Who is an ideal client for you? So someone, so right now it's, you're kinda like launching this so it's at a, a lower price point, but like what's the revenue that your ideal client has?
Luisa: So for our advisory only services, which don't include any of the done-for-you pieces of the equation, you must have been in business for at least six months. We need some historical data so that we understand how your business is performing to help you make good decisions going forward. So you have to have some financial data. Six months is like the minimum, but 12 months is even better. For our done-for-you services, we have two service tiers. One is specifically for agency owners and service providers who are generating at least $250,000 in annual revenue. That's where it makes the most sense to start outsourcing this accounting function. And so that is our lower service tier. And then for 500 k plus we have a higher service tier and that's where we take on sort of the back office accounting, so paying bills and invoices and running payroll and all of that sort of thing.
Pam: So make 20,000 a month minimum to kinda like get the, the higher tier and then the other one is six months in business minimum.
Luisa: Yeah, exactly.
Pam: Okay. Do you have like five minutes to do some rapid fires?
Luisa: Of course.
Pam: What is the biggest success that you're still celebrating?
Luisa: The launch of my agency.
Pam: What is the lesson that you're still learning?
Luisa: How to slow down.
Pam: Do you have an I made it moment?
Luisa: Yes. When I put myself on salary through my S-corp and was able to take a distribution on top.
Pam: Yes. What is something you've been putting off for months?
Luisa: Going to yoga.
Pam: Vics or chamomille tea?
Luisa: Chamomille.
Pam: What is love?
Luisa: Intense.
Pam: Joy or peace?
Luisa: Joy.
Pam: Discipline or habits?
Luisa: Habits.
Pam: They didn't think I could "blank", but I did.
Luisa: Ooh, that's a good one. I don't have an answer.
Pam: Maybe it's not there yet. If you think about it, lemme know. Give me "blank" and I will "blank".
Luisa: Give me money and I will make more of it.
Pam: Yes. What is stopping you?
Luisa: People pleasing.
Pam: What are you willing to fail over and over?
Luisa: Business.
Pam: What is the talk you can do without prep?
Luisa: Anything related to being intentional with your finances.
Pam: What do you want right now?
Luisa: A Pumplemousse LaCroix.
Pam: That's very specific. I'm about it. I'm about it. What are you creating today?
Luisa: Good energy.
Pam: What is the future?
Luisa: Bright!
Pam: Yes. What would you do if I give you a hundred dollars?
Luisa: I love this question. I'd probably buy an NFT.
Pam: I knew it. I was like, just gonna buy an NFT. What if you had to spend it on you?
Luisa: Ooh. I would go to Foreign Cinema for dinner.
Pam: Nice. How did you decide that it was time to hire the first person?
Luisa: I didn't wanna do the work anymore.
Pam: If you had a magic wand, what would you fix into your business?
Luisa: All of our systems and workflows would work like magic.
Pam: Okay. Thank you for those. That's it.
Luisa: That was fun.
Pam: So last two questions. Do you have a remedy that you wanna share?
Luisa: Yes. Oh my gosh, this is so funny. I like, couldn't think of anything, but this came to me. My family has made forever, uh, pudding called Biancomangiare. I had actually google how to spell it because I've just heard it and my family spoken for, for years. I just had it in my head like how it was spelled. It's just like, it's the cure for like, if you're feeling nostalgic, like if you wanna be transported back in time. That's just what came to mind and even talking about it and I'm like, oh, it makes me so happy. It's just makes you feel like warm and fuzzy. So anyway, remedy for, um, if you're feeling family sick, it's like a special Italian pudding.
Pam: How fun. Now I want some. I wanna try it. Where do you get it?
Luisa: Well, if you google the recipe, there's like a very specific extract that goes into it that's from Italy and that's what makes the flavor so good. But it's very simple. It's one of those ones where it's like milk and cornstarch or whatever, but like it's that flavor, that essence that really makes it special.
Pam: All right. All right. And do you have a quote or mantra that you live by right now?
Luisa: Yes. Less but better?
Pam: Great! Well thank you Luisa, so much. This was super fun. Anything you would like to add that I didn't ask?
Luisa: I'm just so grateful for our friendship and for you inviting me on and for being a part of your community. I just think the work you do is incredible and I'm honored to know you. So thank you so much.
Pam: Thank you. Thank you for coming and sharing all the things. I learned so much about you, so thank you for sharing and being super open. Maybe we'll bring you back to talk like full finances on business cuz people always have questions.
Luisa: Yeah, and if people have questions like I am game, like I love talking about finance all day, hit me up on the Instagram or here or wherever makes sense, but I'll respond. I love talking about money.
Pam: All right, let's do it. Let's plan it out.
Luisa: Oh, listeners, stay shining!
***
All right, listeners, that was my conversation with Luisa. I would love to hear your thoughts. Tell me, what do you think? I mean, Luisa, of course, it's a ball of joy. I mean, if I was to give Luisa a character, she would be Joy from the movie Inside Out, hands down, with not a drop of any of the other characters. Is full joy. So she's amazing, always so inspiring. This super light of encouragement, motivation, like there's no way to have a conversation with Luisa and not end up like, all right, I got this, because that's who she is. She brings up the light in you as well. So I really hope you felt it. It was great for me.
Y bueno, if you feel called to, I would love it if you tag me on the socials and tell me what your thoughts are. Tell me what are your next steps. What was it that you were maybe considering doing. And now after hearing this episode, you're like, you know what? I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna jump, because why not? And so @cafeconpampodcast on the social medias, and also if you feel called, if you have the time, if this episode inspired you so much, head over to whatever podcast platform of choice you have. And unless it's Spotify, because you can't leave reviews there, there are others that you can't leave reviews. Pero if the one that you listen on allows you to leave reviews, please I invite you to do it. I appreciate it when you do. I appreciate it if you think about it, even. I appreciate it more when you take action. Subscribe, write, and review, such important things for the show because it allows other people to discover it. It allows sponsors to look at us and consider us and really helps us grow. And the more we grow, the more I'm able to support and create things for us and bring in the stories and continue to hire and support other people in the team that are also helping me in this mission of sharing our stories. So I appreciate it if you take the time, subscribe, rate, and review. If you haven't subscribed, come on now. How do you even know? How do you even know when a new episode comes out?
Y bueno, let's stay connected. I would love to stay connected @cafeconpampodcast on Instagram and Facebook, ya te lo dije. That was already given to you. The other way to connect is the Stay Shining Club. Stayshining.club. It is the place for us to be, hang out, have additional conversations with others, other listeners of Café con Pam. This is where we've been having conversations from episodes like you go in there, there's a channel called Café con Pam, and then you're like, oh my gosh, this episode really resonated. This episode was great for me because blah, blah, blah. If you want to have a further experience with other manis, that's your place. Stayshining.club. I've been thinking about creating an NFT collection for Café con Pam, like, cómo ven. So I'm bringing you all into Discord so I can teach you the ways. I know some of you manis are already in The Fund. A lot of you joined. Thank you for that, for trusting that project. I've been thinking about how do I blend now my Web2 with a Web3 component. I don't know, yo no sé. If you have ideas, let me know. Actually, I do have ideas, I have so many ideas. Maybe if you're interested on hearing them, let me know, para que I don't sit here for three hours talking.
I am currently talking into the future. I'm recording this in the past and you're hearing it in the future as I am leaving San Diego and embarking into this trek into Kansas City and then going to Denver for a few weeks. And this is being recorded in the past, so it's super fun. Check out my stories. I'll be sharing all of the updates or the majority of them. A veces se me olvida, la verdad, a veces se me olvida sharing and I'm like, cuz I'm in the moment. I've chosen to be present. Pero, you know, si me acuerdo I'm going to be updating you on my trek starting today. Starting today. You know what? Let me record a story, evidence that I'm doing it.
Y bueno manis, thank you so much for being here. I so appreciate you. If you're still here, wow. Kudos to you. Me quito el sombrero la verdad. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful you're here. I'm so grateful. 270 episodes later, I'm gonna tease a little bit. If you're still here, you might be the ones. Episode 300 is going to be fab. Like I cannot wait. I've started planning episode 300. It's going to be more than me. It's going to bring some throwbacks. It's going to be a catchup session, and I think you're going to enjoy it thoroughly. It's going to be super fun. Now, if you're still here, I'm curious if you would be interested in a live episode. It would be virtual because the people that is coming is in different places geographically. So at this moment, we couldn't do it in person. One day my dream is to have a studio, an actual in-person Café con Pam show. Pero mira, mientras episode 300 is gonna be virtual. We have the capacity to make it a live episode where you can join us, an audience and literally watch us have a conversation and ask questions and make it super fun. So if you're still here, tag me. Screenshot this and tag me and be like, oh my gosh, do a live episode, or whatever you feel, because how fun would that be? Oh my gosh. Maybe this is like the beginnings of the live Café con Pam. I mean, it's always been my dream to have an actual studio with where people come in and we have the conversation. Pero you know, a podcast it is, it's much more intimate. I'm in your ears. So let me know. What do you think? I won't tell you who it is yet. I won't tell you who it is. You might have an idea. I mean, it's some of my favorite people. I'll leave it there. Yeah. Me avisan. Let me know if you would like a live episode. What do you think? I don't know. Maybe give me some guesses. Ya me voy, love you, sending you so, so much love. So grateful you're here. Un abrazote. Como siempre never, don't forget, to stay shining.