263 - Honoring Your Indigenous Heritage with Lauren Jimerson

Jul 10

263 - Honoring Your Indigenous Heritage with Lauren Jimerson

Listeners, we're back this week with Lauren Jimerson

Lauren is a fine artist, former therapist and Indigenous life coach who advocates for radical self-love, self-care, self-acceptance and rest.

During this episode we talked about:

4:39 - Her heritage and growing up in the reservation
9:41 - Being off the reservation I was not normal
15:57 - Deciding to become a therapist and how she left the field
23:04 - Taking a break from social media
24:30 - It’s ok to take breaks
25:49 - Residential schools and self-oppression
40:54 - Bringing indigenous knowledge to coaching
46:55 - Knowledge isn’t monetary

Hello everyone. This is Pam de Cafe con Pam, the bilingual podcast that features Latine, Latinx, and people of the global majority who break barriers, change lives, and make this world a better place. Welcome to episode 263 of Cafe con Pam. Today we have a conversation with Lauren Jimerson.
Lauren is a fine artist, former therapist and Indigenous life coach who advocates for radical self-love, self-care, self-acceptance and rest.
Listeners, this conversation with Lauren was so fun. I have been on her podcast and we have done some Instagram lives together. I don't know if one of many, but during our engagements we've had really good conversations about existence, identity, and really operating and existing in the world. And so our conversation was so rich and we run out of time because there were so many things that we talked about. There were so many different topics that we could have elaborated on and touched on.
***
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***
And I hope that this conversation is the beginning of many with Lauren, many with other indigenous coaches and or business owners, so we can explore also identity with them. I think it's necessary and I really hope you enjoy our talk. Y bueno, sin más, here's my conversation with Lauren Jimerson.
***
Pam: Lauren. Welcome to Cafe con Pam.
Lauren: Yay. Thank you. So glad to be here.
Pam: Thank you for being here. I'm so happy to have you and dive into our conversation and talk about all the things. So, the first question that we always ask is, what is your heritage?
Lauren: I am indigenous American. I actually live in the land of my ancestors, so America would call me an English Seneca. But in my language, we refer to ourselves as the Onöndowa'ga, which translates to mean People of the Great Hills.
Pam: Why the English Seneca?
Lauren: So Seneca, the story I've heard about that is that I think we were called that by the Algonquins. I might be getting that mixed up though.
Pam: But that's US history.
Lauren: Right.
Pam: Welcome to United States History.
Lauren: Right.
Pam: There isn't like one story.
Lauren: Right. So we just say like, you know, Seneca doesn't have a meaning to us. We refer to ourselves as the Onöndowa'ga.
Pam: I love that. And where does Seneca come from? Is it random or like...
Lauren: I know there's a story, but like right now I'm like getting like the stories mixed up in my head because there's like, I mean, you know, we, we had a big hand in the trading, on the trading scene and so, you know, like we allied with the Dutch and then the, o Senecas are the keepers of the western door in New York state. So we're actually part of a confederacy. So originally there were five nations and we go across New York state. And so we were keepers of the Western door, Mohawks are keepers of the eastern door. So they're like, you know, on the east side of New York state. So then there's three other nations between, there's Cayuga, Onondaga, Oneida, and then the Mohawk. So that's how we like, you know, protected our land. And so if like someone wanted, you know, access to trade within the Confederacy or you know, present day New York state, they would have to, you know, come in through the western door. And so that made people, you know, like these groups of people want, like, have conflict with us. Yeah. So the French was one of those, but the Mohawk could allied with the French. All this stuff happened in the forming of America. So like you said, there's like plenty of versions out there of like why things are the way they are.
Pam: Right.
Lauren: I don't think any of the nations are identified by their title and their language. So there are stories about, you know, like why, you know, why the Seneca called the Seneca, why Cayuga are called Cayugas, you know, stuff like that. And you know, of course we know like there were different nations, you know, in the area like the Erie, I know, um, shared territory with us. You know, I don't know too much about like up north where Mohawk territory is, cuz there's other nations too. Just all these like indigenous nations in the area and so all that like just influences the way things are now.
Pam: For sure. You grew up in this land? The land that belongs to your people, to you.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: And did you ever leave?
Lauren: I've gone visiting, but no. I've always lived in New York State. The reservation I grew up on is two hours from here. So I'm currently in Rochester, New York. And when I moved to Rochester or the Rochester area, that was when I learned that we actually had villages and towns in this area. There is a reserv-, a Seneca reservation that's like an hour out from here, near Buffalo. Mine is, um, if you keep going west, the New York State Thruway actually runs through my reservation. And then there's one in the southern tier, like on the New York Pennsylvania border. So there's actually three Seneca reservations in New York State.
Pam: Wow. So you've always kinda like hung out in that space.
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: To clarify, I grew up in Mexico City. So I have no idea about the perception that there is with reservations and you know, things I've heard that I can mention. But like, I guess I don't have any biases necessarily because when I used to drive to Arizona all the time, for example, or I used to drive when I was in corporate. I would often like drive into tiny cities and many times I would drive through reservations. And I would always hear like, be careful when you go through the res. And I'm like, Why ? I don't understand. So how was it for you growing up in the reservation? How was it? And maybe we can like debunk those like--
Lauren: Yeah. Cause I remember growing up and you know, I went to school off the reservation, and so we would hear things like, you know, that pizza place doesn't deliver to the res cuz they think they're gonna get arrow stuck in their tires and which is like fucking bullshit.
Pam: Oh my gosh.
Lauren: Yeah, yeah. Like off the reservation that it's so racist. But being on the reservation, it's like, I don't know. It's weird cuz it, I didn't realize how exclusive it was until I got older. And I left the reservation when I was 16 and that was when I realized like, I'm not normal, but like on the reservation like I am. But like off I was like, oh my God. It was a whole different thing. And you know, like I said, like the reservation's a two hour drive from here. I actually did a TEDx talk on, you know, like existing in two worlds. But like growing up it was really cool being surrounded by my culture. And often when I talk about growing up on a reservation, I'm like, it's kind of like this time warp where, you know, I grew up in the eighties. I have like 1980s influence, but also we were kind of like in the seventies and the sixties all at the same time.
Pam: Because the reservations kind of like kept that?
Lauren: I think cuz like, you know, we, our culture kind of has this like tie to, you know, like the ancestors, right? I really had to like figure out how to be in touch with like time when I left and like, you know, like learn how to schedule things. We have this concept called Indian Time where everything starts like an hour later than it's actually scheduled to start . And so when I left I had to figure out how to be on time, I guess, to things. And that took work.
Pam: For sure. So have you heard of Chronemics?
Lauren: Kind of.
Pam: So Chronemics is the study of time and communication and there's two types of communication and time. Monochronic and Polychronic. So Monochronic cultures are the United States as a whole, I guess. So Monochronic cultures are the US, Eastern European, some Asian cultures, not like, Japan, China. Those are Monochrons. Because those people culturally speaking in time, value, time in time. Polychrons, you have all the black and brown people, so Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa, the Mediterranean cultures, Native Americans. Because polychronic cultures value time in relationships. And so, I mean there's the Indian time, there's color people time, you know, there's brown people time, and all of those are polychrons. And it totally makes sense when you say, when you stepped out of the reservation and you had to learn how to be on like "on time".
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: It happens to me, for example, when my aunts say, We're gonna have a get together party or whatever, and it starts at three. I'm like, Oh, if I get there at five, it's gonna be fine.
Lauren: Right.
Pam: Barely starting, you know, like no big deal. Because I also know that it extends, polychrons expand into time. Monochrons exist within the time. And so you basically navigated from being a polychron to a monochron, like in and out of the reservation. That makes so much sense.
Lauren: Yeah. And it's like wild having to, I don't know, I guess like regulate myself when I travel, you know, between like the res and off the res. I feel like I'm trying to find a space in between where I can just like be myself. Cause I feel like I can't, like, you know, there's this push and pull between like, I don't know, I just thought about how like me and my kids have traveled back to the res, you know, I mean, it's two hour drive. People will be like, Oh my God, that's so much drive. I'm like, Dude, that's our, that's been a regular commute for 24 years now. So it's just, you know, like it, we think of nothing to just jump in the car and like, go somewhere. So my kids grew up traveling like that back and forth and you know, like sometimes we'll go out there for, you know, like a couple hours and then come back. But there are times where I'll hit the res line and my accent, I have an accent, so it gets really thick and it's like, it's like a switch.
Pam: The moment you cross the, like the line.
Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, we're on the res [laughs] And then sometimes I'll come back with it and I'll be like, Oh my God, I gotta, you know, when I used to work, you know, at a, at a job, you know, I'd be like, Oh my God, I have to calm my accent down when I go back to work.
Pam: So interesting. I read something about not using the term code switching anymore because it talked about this element of assimilation. You know, like, code switching invites assimilation when it's not about it. And I don't know what the, what the new term is, but it is a switch. It's a cultural switch that you have to kind of like adapt to maybe not assimilate into, because I don't think we should leave who we are to exist in a world and be accepted.
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: However, at times we do have to adjust to be accepted, otherwise we're in danger.
Lauren: Right.
Pam: Like, I think it's that fine line of, if I'm fully 100% who I, and this includes people of the global majority, this includes people in the LGBTQI+ community, you know, like there are times when a mask is necessary because otherwise you put yourself in danger.
Lauren: Yes. Well, I was gonna say, you know, like I've been talking to one of my friends about this, cuz you know, they have PTSD. I have PTSD as well, and there's this whole thing on social media about unmasking. And you know, having, you know, autism and unmasking and you know, I was like telling them like, you have to know, like it's safe to do that. You can't just like, all willy nilly just be unmasking. It's not always safe. Like you have to know where it's safe to do that. You know, I remember, you know, when I was working at this hospital, I used to be a therapist and I felt like I had to have, of course you know, you have to have boundaries and, you know, so I would put on makeup and, you know, I'm also an artist, so like I would get creative with my makeup, but that also became my mask. And so, you know, so I could separate myself from my clients and, you know, it would remind me to have boundaries, like my makeup kept me safe, but it was also like my fun thing to do in the morning, and also a way to express myself at the same time.
Pam: How did you decide to become a therapist?
Lauren: Well, people just like have always opened up to me. You know, like I, I, I make people comfortable and, you know, I've been told like, I create like this relaxing environment so people just feel safe with me and they'll just like spill their secrets. And so while I had that going on, I went to art school, you know, and I was doing my BFA in fine arts and I didn't know where I was going after my BFA until like, I think I had a year left and I did this series of paintings where I just put on music to induce emotion and then just like did these abstract expressive paintings and it was really cathartic and I thought like, Oh my God, I wanna teach everybody to do this. So I spoke to my advisor about, um, going on to do my master's in art therapy and he was really supportive. And so I did all my prerequisites and applied for this program in art therapy. And then I got in.
Pam: Nice.
Lauren: Yeah. So, you know, I was like, well, you know, if people are opening up to me like, you know, I can make it a career. And that's what got me into it. So I was doing art therapy and I got into addictions counseling, and. I think about it all the time because it's been like a year and a half since I've worked as a therapist. And I loved having that like relationship with my clients and helping people. But it was like the system that's just like crushing and I can't, I can't do that part anymore.
Pam: What happened?
Lauren: It was actually a really hard exit. It was at the beginning of the pandemic. I had some personal stuff going on in my personal life that had triggered, you know, me, you know, like I said, I have PTSD and you know, I go to therapy for it and take, you know, I take really good care of myself cause I know, you know, like I have to take care of myself first. That's really important. And then the pandemic happened and it was impacting my work and my executive functioning was, you know, like negatively impacted. I couldn't focus enough to do my paperwork. I started to have like symptoms, like ADHD and, and that got worse.
Pam: Wow.
Lauren: Yeah, I was telling, you know, like telling my leadership like I'm having these issues. I did take some time off and then when I came back, like everything, all the symptoms came back and you know, so I'm telling my leadership, I'm like, I'm having a hard time. I was having some of the best therapy sessions with my clients, but you know, we have to write progress notes and I'm like, I can't. I'm having a hard time writing my progress notes and without progress note, they can't bill insurance. So then that's when I become a problem, you know?
Pam: Yeah.
Lauren: So they put me on a performance improvement plan and I didn't improve and I got fired from my job. And then, you know, I tried to move on, you know, cuz I thought like, oh, I could just like move on. I got another job and my symptoms got worse and I ended up having to take a leave from there. When I was on leave from there, I got let go from that job. Yeah. So, you know, like I wrote this thing about how it was when I started costing money, when I became the problem in that system. Yeah.
Pam: Oof! And did they not have any support? Because I mean, it sounds like you were voicing what was going on. I mean, as a therapist. As a program that supports people. Didn't they have other people to support you?
lauren: I had my own therapist. They knew I had my own therapist. I ended up going also to an EAP therapist. I was like, cause if I have to, you know, like fight this, I have to like, you know, pull in all the resources that I have. So I saw an EAP therapist, so I had all that, you know, on record. And I was telling them, you know, there was one point where like I was having trouble sleeping and I had to call lifeline. Cause you know, it's like three, four o'clock in the morning and I'm like, I don't know. I don't know who to call. I'm panicking. And so I called. So I was like communicating with my leadership, like I'm doing everything I can, but I'm like still struggling. And I actually, I got kind of reprimanded for that, you know? Cuz they were like, we know what you're capable of it. It was really frustrating and it was very traumatic.
Pam: Yeah, because it sounds like, I mean, you talk about the system and the system of capitalism sees people as machines and the moment the machine is broken, then we just replace it.
Lauren: You get a new one. Yeah.
Pam: Oh, that's so unfortunate. I'm sorry you went through that.
Lauren: Thank you.
Pam: And then did something good happen from it? Like I know you're still dealing with the repercussions of that. The PTSD from all of that things that were happening in the past, like, you know, the compounding stuff, but then, so anything good happen out of it?
Lauren: Yeah. And you know, of course, like this wasn't my first rodeo. I've been through like all kinds of shit, you know, I've had to come through. But this one I think was one of the hardest things to go through. And as hard as it got, I'm like, I know that somewhere it's gonna turn and, you know, like something's gonna happen where it does become meaningful and it does become good. And, you know, of course I think that's what they refer to as post-traumatic growth. You know, I know there's, there's meaning in it. And so I return to my art.
Pam: Yay.
Lauren: And so I'm making art and you know, like I was talking about how I had to put on that mask and I had to process through that. Like, I had like a period of depression and I wasn't doing my makeup. You know, there was a lot of things that I had to stop doing to just like take time and heal from all of that. That's why, like I say, it's like one of the hardest things I've had to do. Um, cuz I was in that like corporate capitalistic groove, you know? And so it was like withdrawing from being in that productive lifestyle. And you know, like even though I was home, you know, like I'm like, I have to be productive and what can I do today? And it was just wild. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm going through this because, you know, like I said, you know, I grew up on the res, like things are are more laid back and we go visiting people, you know? Like we show up at someone's house and we just like hang out for hours.
Pam: Yes.
Lauren: And that doesn't necessarily happen off the res. I feel like I always have to be invited. I feel like I have to call ahead of time. Like, you have to make an appointment.
Pam: Yep.
Lauren: So like, it was like yeah, backing out and there was like, um, like a period of withdrawal. But right now, you know, I've been spending a lot of time with myself, by myself and getting to know myself all over again. And so there's like this integration that is happening. I feel like my last part of it is I've been taking this break from social media, so I've been off of social media for just over a month.
Pam: It feels great, right?
Lauren: Yes! I know. I'm like, I dunno if I wanna go back, but I know like I have to, cause I know like I have these businesses that I need to promote. I gotta get back to like, you know, the work that I wanna do. So I'm like just savoring it right now. But it was actually resulting from, I got Covid and like right before I got Covid, like all this other stuff happened, like I had a family member get brutalized by the police on our reservation. And then like right after that, I wanna say within the week the Buffalo shooting happened.
Pam: Mm-hmm, piled up.
Lauren: I grew up in a Buffalo area and then I read this article that the shooter was actually planning to come to Rochester and there's a different tops. Yeah, that's like five minutes from my house. And the neighborhood that I used to work in, you know, like his plans were to go there, so, and it was just like a lot. And I was like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I need a break. You know, like I'm reading all these articles and scrolling and everyone's talking about all this stuff. And so I was just like, I'm shutting down. And now it's on my Instagram, my Facebook. I'm like, I need a break. It's too much right now. And also encouraging people that you know, it's okay to take breaks. It's okay to listen to your body and you know, like tend to your own needs. I don't think people do enough of that.
Pam: Agreed. 100%. And I think it's tricky, you know, because I've been called out before when I'm like, take time for yourself, disconnect. And they're like, What a privilege you have that you can do that. And yeah, it is. 100%. It is a privilege, and especially during Covid times, you know, I work from home. I do have that incredible privilege to be able to continue to work from home. Whereas my mother who works outside of the house, she couldn't, you know, and so like I see it from my perspective, from my lived experience. Children of immigrant for example there's the guilt of like, I have the privilege to do it, but I'm not gonna do it because I see my parents not able to do it. Whereas I think that's wrong.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: Because then nobody really is thriving. Putting yourself through that pain is self oppression, as harsh as that might sound.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: It is a fine line to walk and navigate and I respect those who are like, I'm not gonna do it because I just feel super bad. Great. Understand though that as you're running away from the oppressor, that is self oppression that you're doing unto yourself.
Lauren: Yes. Yeah. I've been talking about this too, uh, about how, well, you know, like my people went through residential schools, right? And, you know, the whole objective of the residential schools was to kill the Indian to save the man. So, you know, I talk about how we were conditioned in those institutions to, you know, be self oppressive and also to promote lateral violence. I, I know people have reactions, but like if we're not talking about it, then how are we gonna address it? And how are we gonna be better.
Pam: I mean, I think it's important because otherwise we continue the cycle and the pattern gets repeated and we're seeing it. I mean, in all the things that are happening, as the world burns down, or I would say the United States, whatever that means, the patterns kept being repeated. And so at least having a conversation, not that the conversation will change things and bringing awareness to it is important.
Lauren: Yeah. I think of myself as like, Johnny Appleseed, you know? So I bring up these things like people don't wanna talk about and hear about, but it's planting seeds.
Pam: Yes. Who's Johnny Appleseed?
Lauren: So there's this like American folk tale that this guy Johnny Appleseed, you know, like just walked around all over the place, just like throwing apple tree seeds. And so like, yeah.
Pam: Yes. Let's plant the seeds. Tell me more about the lateral violence.
Lauren: So lateral violence, I think is most often talked about when, I think when you talk about like black on black crime. Black on black violence. But like, I'm part of a culture that like, we are invisible. You know. We're invisible and we know the statistics about, you know, like black mortality rates. We know the statistics about, you know, health issues and mortality rates for black people. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But, you know, when I started going through, you know, what I was going through, losing my job, that was when, you know, Daniel Prude happened, and George Floyd, Daniel Prude was, was um, local. A black man who in Rochester was having a psychotic episode and, you know, like the same, almost the same thing as like George Floyd, you know, was like killed by the police, like in the same manner. So, you know, like a lot of this stuff was hitting home and, you know, of course, like Black Lives Matter, you know, was, there was all these protests and you know, there was a lot of unrest. And I was at home like, you know, in my own, like trauma space. I feel like what I was going through, like there was an element of racism, but you know, I've been told like, well, you can't really improve that. Cause I, I worked in the most diverse department. And so it's like, well you can't really improve that, you know? So, and I guess you can't really improve like, you know, implicit biases that were happening. And I, you know, I'm the only indigenous person in the department, you know, like, so I started to question like, am I the wrong kind of brown? And I started to look to see where I was reflected. And you know, of course this was a, so this was a time where data, you know, was flashing all over the place. And I would see black people, Latin people and Asians, and I was like, Holy shit, we don't exist in America. We don't exist. I don't see myself reflected and, you know, our stories aren't told. And you know, I think when they started to find the mass graves, people started to take notice. But you know, then it like dies down really fast. They're up to 10,000 on those mass graves. And like, I haven't seen that being talked about anywhere. We're still going through this. They're still finding graves. And this was something that like our elders had talked about for a long time, but you know, like there wasn't proof of it, you know, so their stories weren't validated until they started to find those things. For me that was like common knowledge that like these children were dying at residential schools and there's all kinds, you know, there was all kinds of abuse happening.
Pam: Yes.
Lauren: I mean, they were beating the Indian out of the kids.
Pam: Oh my god.
Lauren: Yeah. You know, cuz we weren't seen as human. And there's this movie called Beans by this Mohawk director. Her name is Tracy Deer.
Pam: B-E-A-N-S?
Lauren: Yes. And it's about this young woman who grew up during the Oka Crisis on the Kaghnuwage Reserve in Canada. So it was in the nineties. And on my reservation there was a lot of protesting happening. There was also a lot of protesting happening on other Haudenosaunee territories and Haudenosaunee being, you know, the, the Confederacy that I was talking about earlier. Americans call Iroquois, we call it Haudenosaunee. So Oka was one of those, and it got really intense and it was because the Canadian government wanted to build a golf course on Mohawk land and the Mohawks weren't having it.
Pam: For sure.
Lauren: Yeah. It became like this really intense standoff. You know, they had cut the Mohawks off. Like they, they didn't have, you know, food wasn't being delivered. Like yeah their resources were cut off. And so Tracy Deer grew up during that, and so she made this movie about it. So the main character's name is Beans. And she, um, befriends this girl who, who she thinks is like, tough and cool, but, you know, really there's like stuff, you know, of course, like abuse and stuff happening in the home. But this girl, she teaches beans how to toughen herself up, and she like teaches her how to like, hit her leg with a stick. And she's like, you gotta keep doing it until it doesn't hurt anymore.
Pam: Wow.
Lauren: And so that's how you make yourself tell Yeah. And that's how you protect yourself. Like that scene, I was like, Oh my God. You know, like I remember doing things like that as a girl cuz I needed to be tough and you know, I can't let things like, I can't let things in because then that makes me vulnerable. And so I think in other ways that we had to learn how to make ourselves tough, especially in those residential schools. So I think this is something that's been passed on from generation to generation, you know, is like making fun of each other and talking shit to each other.
Pam: Yes. Coping through humor.
Lauren: Yeah. So I have a dark sense of humor that I have. That's one of those things too, where I have to like, you know, know my audience, so to speak.
Pam: Right, right.
Lauren: You know, check my surroundings. So there's a lot of social media, you know, memes and stuff about like, you know, you can't like offend a native kid because they get roasted by their mom on the daily and It's so true.
Pam: We do too.
Lauren: Yeah. My kids are immune, so, you know, like you say something shady to them, they're just gonna laugh at you.
Pam: That's so interesting because like, I did a social media post the other day. I mean, I don't know how long ago, about calling women females, and so that like, just pushed some buttons from some people and it was funny to me because they started offending me as a human being.
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: And so I had friends, my white friends that were like texting me like, are you okay? Do you want me to like go in and I'm like, no, I've been hearing this shit from my grandmother, like my whole life. Are you kidding? Like, this is, is not a big deal, to your point. So, yes, I get it.
Lauren: Yeah. Oh, I was gonna say, you know, I think that like, you know, those things were in place to create resilience and protection, but there's a point where it goes too far.
Pam: Exactly.
Lauren: You know? And so I think like, yeah, when it comes to super shaming. That's where I think it becomes violent, and that's where it becomes lateral violence, you know?
Pam: Yes.
Lauren: And those things are problematic. And things that I'm dealing with now is that, so we're really big on knowledge, right? And growing up, it was like if you didn't know something, like someone would be like, Oh, you didn't know. And then it was like, Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. So that like induces shame. So now, like in my adulthood, you know, I, I've been working on like being okay with saying like, I don't know. We're not supposed to know everything . But where I grew up, it was embarrassing to not know. So that's something I had to change. I'm, I'm actively working on changing that about myself.
Pam: And that's so fascinating because as I reflect on that, I think of the lineage and what's been left to us, you know, each of us in different ways culturally, and knowledge is one thing that we can hold onto. You know, the culture's been taken, the language's been taken, the land's been taken. Like, and the storytelling, the wisdom is what's been passed on. And so I get how it would be like, how do you not know? Like it's the only thing that we can hold onto in a way. You know, as I reflect on it, I'm like, Oh my gosh. It makes so much sense. And at the same time, it's a lot of responsibility to kind of hold onto that too, because it's like, it's a lot.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: Ooh, this is good. Okay, let's take a coffee break.
***
Pam: So, Lauren, do you drink coffee?
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: How do you drink your coffee?
Lauren: Oh, oh my God. All kinds of ways. I'm not like married to one way. Right now I'm drinking black coffee.
Pam: Nice.
Lauren: Yeah. But sometimes I like it with creamer. Sometimes I get with creamer and sugar. Sometimes I want a latte, so I go through phases. So I just, I love coffee.
Pam: Is there a traditional way that-- do I say Native Americans? Or do I say, what's the proper, correct word?
Lauren: Well, I think I use Native American and indigenous like interchangeably.
Pam: Okay.
Lauren: You know, I'm indigenous to this land, but um, like certain times I think like indigenous, you can also be speaking to the world, you know.
Pam: Indigenous of another land. Right, right. So is there a traditional indigenous way of drinking coffee? Or, coffee was not like a thing of the north of North America, right? I don't think.
Lauren: No.
Pam: I need to find this out. More historical references about coffee. How do, how dare I. Going back to the knowledge thing. How dare I have a whole podcast on coffee and not know. So you're drinking coffee black. I am drinking, I'm gonna share my little recipe. So in Mexico, there is a way of making coffee called café de olla, and is my favorite. It's gotten more recognition. It used to be a way that when you would go to the little tiny towns in the outskirts of the city. That's where like, you know, the old grandma would like have a clay pot with coffee and that was like the recipe. And so it includes cloves, sometimes anís, how you say it in English?
Lauren: I think it's Anis.
Pam: Anis, yes. Sometimes it depends on who makes the recipe molasses and cinnamon. And so everything is kinda like thrown in the pot and then the coffee's brewed and when you get it, it's like this delicious, like, ugh, it's so good.
Lauren: It sounds amazing.
Pam: Is so good. It's like home, you know, it's like, home. However it takes time. Like it's a whole like ensemble. So what I have been doing is I grab a molasses thing cause you know, they come solid, and cinnamon sticks and I grind that in my coffee grinder. So I have this like powdery mix. It takes a long time. So I do it on the weekends and then I just kinda like prep it for the week. So I have this powdery mix of molasses and cinnamon. I just do that, you know. Sweet. I live in a monochronic world, I can't-- expanding like, so, anyway, so I have this powder stuff and then as I brew my coffee, I put it on there and then it kinda like bruised with the coffee and I have this like hint of sweetness and cinnamony stuff in my coffee. It's not quite café de olla. Not to offend my purists of café de olla, but it adds this element of like it's a little bit more, that's what I'm drinking today and I feel so good. And I've also been infusing my coffee with energy, so this is kinda like more witchy type thing. Because you know the world, it's burning down. And so I've resorted to what can I control in this moment? And every morning I can control the way that I drink my coffee. And so as I'm pouring it, as I am making it, I give it intention to bring me productivity, to bring me, I'm also ADHD, so I give it intention to, to bring me focus. I give it intention to give me confidence, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then as I drink it, I am drinking that which I poured into it. That's like my little, I don't know, piece of peace that I'm giving myself every morning. With my coffee.
Lauren: I do the same thing.
Pam: Yeah. It makes a difference. Yeah. I mean, it's a tiny thing that, when you feel, especially with the overturn now of like, you know, like, I have no control outside of my house, and so what could I, that can bring that element of joy and peace that I can like own, at least.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: All right. Let's get back to the show.
***
Pam: So Lauren, you're taking a break, so you're taking care of yourself, which I so support. You're doing art and you're also a life coach.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: And I do wanna talk about coaching and bringing in indigenous knowledge and practices, because I think it's so important. So for me as a business coach, I bring in liberation practices and I lean a lot on indigenous knowledge and the knowledge I, I learn a lot from Mother Earth, so I learn a lot from nature. And me being a "mestiza, I don't know if that's the term that we use here, I cannot claim indigeneity because I'm not. So I have a lot of colonizer blood in my body. I actually, I think you and I had this conversation before where a friend of mine was like, well, but you're indigenous. And I'm like, No, I'm not. I have colonized blood and I have colonizer blood. You know?
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: And so I think there's, it's important to make that. I actually have an issue with people claiming indigeneity that are not, but that's a whole other conversation, and maybe not for me to fight. I don't know. So I say that to say my question was about coaching and bringing in that element of indigenous knowledge.
Lauren: That was like my thing about being a therapist. You know, I love being a therapist and I brought as much as I could of myself into it, you know? And I think that's where I like miss it because, you know, I'm fun, you know, like I was just thinking about it this morning, being the art therapist, you know, I was doing like, you know, all the fun stuff and trying to bring, um, my indigeneity into that space was hard. You know, like I said, I had to put on that mask, you know, I had to figure out how to wear clothes, you know, and still maintain like as much of my identity as possible. I also think that kind of played a role into, because you know, like I would wear dresses and Doc Martin boots, you know.
Pam: Just fun.
Lauren: Yeah. And, and that was really noticeable to people. So I think like, you know, like gatekeepers didn't like that about me. But you know, like my clients loved it. So, but it was like I had to shift myself. I think like being indigenous, I think about things differently. My perspective is different, you know, cuz I think about what's to come. I think about what's been, and you know, we're talking about poly,
Pam: Monochronic and polychronic.
Lauren: Yeah. So I think, um, in terms of time differently. So that part of being like polychronic and bringing that into the space, I remember like being in a meeting and you know, of course marijuana is, you know, it's being used medically. And then we're, and this is when we're having a conversation about, or may, no, we weren't even talking about recreational use and how that could become legal. We were just talking about medical marijuana being a thing and how our clients were using it. And I felt like in this meeting, people were trying to figure out how to like, catch their clients, you know? Which, you know, I think was a fine line between like, how do we know, you know, how can we like, monitor, you know, what our clients are using? And I, I spoke up in a meeting and I said, you know, I've actually been educating my clients on medical marijuana and I've always told my clients like, you know, when you leave here, I don't go with you. So when you're here, like I try to give you the tools and the guidance that I can, but ultimately, like, you're not accountable to me for your decisions. You're accountable to you. So, you know, so I was saying in my, in this meeting, I'm like, you know, I, I give my clients the education and you know, it's up to them to do what they're gonna do with it. And the room was just, completely silent.
Pam: Wow.
Lauren: Yeah. And I was like, and, and this isn't the first time, like I brought something into the space like that and then it was just like silent. And I would sit there and I'd be like, did I even say that out loud? Like it was like a gaslight, you know? Like, was that fucking weird, like what is going? Like,
Pam: I mean, talk about policing bodies.
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: We own your body so much that we even have to monitor the consumption of whatever.
Lauren: Yeah. I don't agree with that. You know, like I'm not trying to be responsible for anybody else's decisions. That was where I felt like conflict within my, you know, like internally. And there was one point where like I had actually read Jen Sincero's book How to Be a Badass.
Pam: Yes.
Lauren: And that's what got me thinking about coaching and life coaching. And I was like, maybe I need a life coach. And so I went and I Googled it and I found [inaudible]. And so I had followed [inaudible] around for like two years before I actually did, you know, the training.
Pam: I did too! It took me a long time.
Lauren: Yes. I, you know, like listening to the podcast, like reading all the things like, like this organization's so cool and like. But I had to be ready for it. And like, you know, when all that stuff happened, I was like, all right, this is it. Like I'm gonna do it. You know, like John Kim always talks about he, you know, he talks about that too, like, having to have that like boundary within the therapeutic relationship, but in coaching you can bring yourself to it. And you know, like I heard him talk about that so much and I'm like, you know, that's what I wanna do. And so naturally, like, you know, bringing my indigenous self to the space, you know, I'm like, I can do that. You know? I'm an indigenous coach. It's awesome. And I think I'm still trying to figure out like how all that actually like works. I think it's more complex than like just being like, here's a ancestral tool. Like I'm just gonna use it. Yeah. It's a process.
Pam: 100%. And I can resonate with all of this because I, I've used, for example, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I learned after I taught a whole class on it, how he spent a lot of time in an indigenous community and, and he actually flipped the pyramid. So Maslow's hierarchy of needs actually is the appropriation of indigenous knowledge. And so it's, to me, my exploration of like, how do I build and create liberation tools in business is really digging deeper into the things and the tools that have been taught in business before and where did they really come from, you know? And so exploring. And to your point is like, well, do I bring this wisdom that has been passed on with me and because of, of the times that we live in, because of science, You know, maybe people are like, Well, how do you back that up? Just because there isn't a white man's name behind it, does it make it not valid?
Lauren: Oh my God.
Pam: Cause a lot of times these things have taken from indigenous knowledge.
Lauren: Yeah. And actually, like, that's something I've been exploring recently too, because I'm like, I went into this field where, you know, it's all about merit and like, you know, having to gain credentials and all this stuff. And then like I said, like that's part of the withdrawal too, where it's like, where I come from knowledge and wisdom isn't monetary. You know, and we get wisdom from our ancestors, or our ancestors and our elders, and you know, like, so we learn in public spaces and you know, like we have access to that. Whereas, you know, like there's gate keeping and you know, this capitalistic corporate structure. That's been hard for me too cuz then I think like, oh my God, I have to do all these training programs. I have to get certified in this, this and that. And, and this is part of like stepping back too. Cause I was questioning like, how do I prove that I know how to do this? You know, like where's the certification for like my indigenous knowledge that I bring? And I'm like, that's fucked up.
Pam: I know!
Lauren: That's not what its. [laughs]
Pam: It's a mind trick. I actually, I had a call with a client this week and she is a psychologist and so she was talking about getting the whatever credential to get into rooms. And I challenged it and I was like, I understand. I get it Academia is, the gate keeping place of the gate keeping place like other than government. Like she was very up there and she was like, I really wanna get into those rooms and the way to do it is if I have this and this and this paper, right? And I challenged and I was like, Well, what if you didn't? What if you dared to say, let me in because I can. Not because I have the paper. She was like, Oh, what if. You know, like possibilities. Because I don't know that this is like a very layered comment, but to your point, it's like how far do we comply with the system to get in the room?
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: When is it time to say, let me in because I belong? Not let me in because I have the paper that you told me to get to get in.
Lauren: Yeah. I resonate. Oh my God. I resonate so much with all of that. And it was coming from a place where I was like, Let me in because I know what I'm doing. I'm good enough. But it wasn't good enough. You know, and I felt like I just got like pushed out and like the door slammed and I was like, All right, I don't belong here.
Pam: Yes. Yeah. I had a conversation one time with the Dean of a university because I did a presentation and she heard me speak, it was a workshop and she heard me speak and then she came to me afterwards, the Dean of the college, and she was like, I wanna hire you to teach a class. I just need your credentials, your master's degree. Like, And I'm like, Oh no, no master's degree. And she was like, her face was so sad. And she was like, Well, you like, in order for you to be an adjunct or college professor at whatever, you need to have a master's. And I'm like, Well, I have -and this is the rebel in me- that I have purposefully not gotten one because I don't wanna comply with the system that tells me that I need to.
Lauren: Yeah.
Pam: And you know, and then I get like friends who are like, the Latinas are like .0 whatever percent of Master's degrees. Okay. That doesn't make us any less smart. It's a lot.
Lauren: Yes. [laughs]
Pam: So what's next for you, Lauren?
Lauren: Oh, what's next for me? Like I said, I'm working on art, I'm working on opening up an online shop. Yeah. I wanna do some merch. I have this dream of opening up a sticker shop.
Pam: Oh my gosh. Stickers are awesome.
Lauren: Yeah. So for me, like that's fun, right? So I just wanna like spread that joy. And of course, you know, like forever working on, uh, my coaching business, uh, which I feel like having this time to myself, I think that that's changing too. You know, I want to focus more on, you know, having like an indigenous based life coaching practice and, you know, I realize that I wasn't particularly doing that. So it's, it's just like, you know, making, making these changes. Um, you know, and just like finding alignment with the things that I do. And I want to have my family involved. Um, cuz I think, you know, I've, I've always had my kids included in the things that I do. That's, you know, that's part of being indigenous too. We don't leave the kids out. We always work together. So, you know, I see it as like a family project that I can support them in doing whatever it is they wanna do too.
Pam: For sure. I love this. Where can we find you?
Lauren: So right now I have my Instagram, it's Laurenajay. Um, so that's my art profile. And then I have my coaching, which is goodmind_coaching. So like I'm taking a break from that, but when I come back, like I'll, I'll update everything wherever else you can find me.
Pam: Awesome. I love this. I do agree, when I have taken time away, whether it's from social media or just even like going away into the woods, disconnecting, unplugging, that space allows you to recalibrate. Otherwise, if we're in it, we're too much in it. We can't think about it. But when you step away from it, it can really provide this space of looking at it from an eagle's eye view. And say, Okay, what's working? What's not working? How can I make it better? And I think it's also valid, like white supremacist principles, talk about, you know, like doing one thing. I believe we can do as many things because we're multifaceted, multi passionate, multi, all the things.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: Lauren, thank you so much for being here. This was super fun. We ran outta time. I have so many more questions. But this was awesome. Thank you for sharing all of the things. Thank you for inspiring us to rest. And take time for ourselves because it's important in reminding us that putting ourselves first is key to our wellness.
Lauren: Yes.
Pam: Thank you so much.
Lauren: Thank you. Hey listeners, stay shining!
***
All right, listeners, that was my combo with Lauren and I'm sure you're like, Oh, there were so many things that could have been said or discussed, and I know. I was left with a lot of questions still, so maybe we can bring Lauren back. Let me know what you think. Let me know if any of the things that we talked about resonated with you. And I would love to see that maybe on social media. You can screenshot and share, tag me on social. Tell me what resonated with you. Share a quotable from either of us. It's a great way to connect and let me know that you're listening because like I've said before, me talking into this empty microphone, it's literally just me talking to this microphone. And so really hearing from you makes such a difference and I so appreciate it when you tag me and mention me on your stories and tell me your thoughts about the episodes. It truly makes my heart sing, so thank you so much.
And if this is your first time here, welcome to Cafe con Pam. I hope you return. I hope you come back. This is your home. I want this to be and feel like a place where you belong, where you are seen, where you are heard, and where you can voice and raise your voice and share. This is something that we have built together. I started this show as a selfish endeavor. Me wanting to hear stories about people that looked and sounded like me. And now it's a project that's for all of us. And so I wanna hear your thoughts. I want to hear what you think of the show. I wanna hear who you recommend me having. And so let's stay connected. The ways to stay connected are social media. It's the easiest @cafeconpampodcast on both Instagram and Facebook. I check Instagram more than Facebook, frankly. You can check out my work at cafeconpam.com. That's where you can find out about what I do as a business coach. You can find out more about the show, if you're a business owner. That's where we can engage on a potential collaboration. I'm always down to do that, and that's where you can potentially figure out if we wanna work together, if you want to explore what I do and if I can support you into your endeavors with whatever they are. And also, I would love for you to leave a rating and or a review in whatever platform of choice. Recently we were mentioned in the top 100 podcast in Goodpods, and I'm so grateful. They sent me an email and they were like, Hey, just so you know, you're in the top 100 podcast in our platform. And oh my gosh, that was like, what? After seven years, we made it to the top 100. But that is all truly, truly thanks to you because if you would not listen, we would not be in any lists. And so I'm so grateful that you're still here and you continue to listen. And maybe you've been skipping episodes, maybe I've happy you will tell me like, you have so many episodes, Pam, that I just kinda like scroll and whatever my finger lands on, that's the one that I listen to. And that's awesome because it's almost like an intuitive choice. And then I'm really curious if you are one of those people, what resonates from that episode? Because it could be one that you're like, Oh, this one really. And then who knows? Maybe the guest shared something that you were like, Ooh, this is what I needed to hear in this moment. So I'm really curious to see if you resonated with any of the messages or stories that are being told.
Y bueno, here we are. Thank you so much for being here. I shared all the things where we can stay connected. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review. It's so important for the show so we can continue to stay visible to others. So the algorithms in all the platforms start sharing us because the more you subscribe, the more you rate, the more you review, the more the algorithms think that this show is relevant to others. It really means a lot. I don't take your time for granted.
Y pues ya, on my end. This is the second episode I released since I came back from Mexico, and I feel like in the last one I kind of left you hanging like it was great and now I'm back. And so I'll give you a little update. If you didn't know. I am the co-founder of Magico Tours. Check us out on Instagram. I'm kind of like a silent kind of partner. I'm on the behind the scenes and I did this with Luis and Iván and it's three of us that are putting this together. We want to become the referred concierge ride company for the LGBTQIA+ plus community that goes and travels to Mexico City, and it's our commitment to provide the best service to people to feel safe, to feel like you speak the language, to have a place where you can be who you are without any judgment. And so that's where I was. We hosted an experience in Xochimilco and it was 30 people. It was so amazing, and I'm so, so grateful. There was 30 folks trusted us with this idea, it started with an idea, and I share this because if you have an idea and you're like, Well, will it work? I don't know. Really Magico Tour started with like, What do you think about doing this? And we acted on it. We felt the time was right. We launched during a relevant time, which was pride and so it worked so beautifully. And, again, I share this because maybe you have an idea that you have in your head, in your heart, in your body, and you're being pushed for it, and maybe you have some doubts. Maybe you're lacking trust in how to make it happen, and my invitation is to explore it, talk to people about it, maybe do a soft announcement and see how people react to it. Don't be afraid of others stealing the idea. I think this is something so prevalent in our community that it's like, Ooh, I'm not gonna share because if I do alguien me lo va a agarrar, like somebody's gonna take the idea from me. No, share it anyway because nobody can do it the way that you do. Nobody has your own magic sauce that you can only bring in. Even the copycats will get it their own way. And, you know, copying is the, the best form of flattery they say. And sometimes it's frustrating. I get it. I've been copied before. And it's like neta? Pero, if you act on your idea, if you listen to your gut and you trust yourself that you can make it happen, we can all create beautiful things. And so I was giving you an update about Mexico pero I think we just went with like trusting your idea. And I would love to know if you have an idea and you're not sure about it, share with me. Send me a DM, let's talk about it. Because I think a lot of dreams are shut because of lack of trust and because of fear. And so follow it. Maybe even acknowledge the fear first. What are you afraid of and what are you losing by not doing it? Y pues ya, te dejo con eso, I'll leave you with that. I would love to, I can't wait actually, I can't wait to hear from you on this y pues como siempre, stay shining!